Legislature(2003 - 2004)
04/01/2003 03:32 PM Senate STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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HJR 18-SUPPORTING U.S. ARMED FORCES
CHAIR GARY STEVENS asked Representative Lynn to take a seat at
the witness table.
REPRESENTATIVE BOB LYNN, bill sponsor, gave the following
testimony:
Good afternoon Mr. Chairman and members of the
committee. I thank you for hearing HJR 18 today. I
don't have a lot to say about it. Probably everything
I could say about it or should say about it, I said at
the rally on Friday. I do have a copy of the remarks
that I gave on Friday, which I won't read to you
because you already heard it. I'll submit it as my
written testimony. [See bill file.] I do urge you to
pass this out of committee. Our troops need to have
tangible evidence of the official support of the State
of Alaska to help us win the war and to protect human
life. I said during my comments at the rally, 'If you
don't have the morale you need that endangers your
life.' And as a Vietnam Veteran, I know I didn't have
that when I came back from Vietnam. I don't want these
troops and supporters to have to go through the same
thing that some of us Vietnam Veterans did. And with
that, I would urge you to pass it.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS noted there was a great turn out at the
rally.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN replied he was pleased with the audience.
SENATOR JOHN COWDERY commended the Representative on the work he
did, but was disappointed that he didn't see it on TV.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN stated to the best of his knowledge, Channel
2 did not cover the event, but he understands some of the local
stations did.
SENATOR COWDERY said he would like to move the bill.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS noted a letter from Mr. Thompson points out
that the troops haven't all made the ultimate sacrifice, which
is death. He suggests on page 2, line 1 to delete "have made"
and insert "are prepared to make". He asked if the
Representative would be comfortable with that change.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN agreed to the change.
There being no objection, the motion passed.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS announced there were a number of people that
were waiting to give testimony.
SENATOR GRETCHEN GUESS remarked she didn't know whether a
country could make the ultimate sacrifice.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS called for public testimony.
CAROL KLOPF testified from the Fairbanks LIO in strong
opposition to HJR 18. As elected representatives of the State of
Alaska, legislators should be representing all the citizens of
Alaska. Because there are large numbers of individuals on both
sides of the issue, it's wrong for the Legislature to take sides
regarding the war in Iraq. She thought nearly all Alaskans
support the soldiers and military personnel and said, "We in the
peace community do support our soldiers, we just don't support
President Bush." She advised there was a different resolution
that was prepared that states support of the United States Armed
Forces and members of the peace community believe the State of
Alaska should endorse the resolution.
ANN GODDUHN testified from the Fairbanks LIO. She and 56
affiliates of the University of Alaska, Fairbanks signed a
declaration objecting to the adoption of HJR 18 because it
proclaimed support for the armed military interception in Iraq.
They did express support and deep appreciation for the U.S.
Armed Services for their dedication of cause.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS ask her to send the list of the individuals
that signed the declaration rather than reading them.
MS. GODDUHN replied she would prefer to read the list because
all the people were planning to give testimony.
SENATOR GUESS stated the resolution mentions Iraq, but it
focuses on the support for the armed services and does a good
job of balancing a difficult issue for some people in the
nation. She asked Ms. Godduhn and Ms. Klopf to point to places
in the resolution that were objectionable because the resolution
is about supporting the men and women in the armed services.
MS. GODDUHN replied she did not have a copy of the committee
substitute, but the original document had strong language
supporting President Bush's initiative in taking preemptive
action. She advised she was giving her own views, but the idea
of altering the war paradigm to include preemptive action as
legitimate was an incredibly dangerous step. She expressed deep
disappointment that the State of Alaska would consider endorsing
that kind of paradigm shift.
SENATOR GUESS said she didn't see that in the resolution and
asked her to review the version that passed the House and then
get back to her for further discussion.
MS. GODDUHN observed the language was toned down in the
committee substitute, but the resolution still endorses the war
and supports President Bush as evidenced by the language, "as
this nation is engaged in combat." She said this is misleading
the public regarding the origins of this new preemptive
paradigm. She heartily agreed there is a need to support the
troops, but not the war.
SENATOR COWDERY said, "You say you have 50 names from the
university and it's ironic.... I'd be interested in looking at
those names of the faculty there that have them if you'd send it
to us because they're down here asking for money as you speak.
And also, are you supportive of the devastating events that
happened in New York when they hit our towers?"
MS. GODDUHN exclaimed she grew up in Brooklyn and loves the
city. She entreated him not to misrepresent this as being anti-
American. She is as much an American as anybody who was killed
in the towers. Although President Bush has held that Iraq was
behind the attack, it hasn't been substantiated.
SENATOR COWDERY said he would like to move the bill.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS advised there were many people that needed to
speak and he wanted to hear them.
SENATOR COWDERY noted there was a caucus in 45 minutes.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS announced the committee would take testimony
from three people in Fairbanks initially then give people at
other sites an opportunity before returning to Fairbanks. He
asked that testimony be limited to a minute or so.
SUZANNE RICH from Fairbanks testified she was an organizer of
SOS for peace, which was a group of 375 Fairbanks citizens who
are opposed to going to war in Iraq. She supports the troops and
that is the reason she is against the war. The U.S. must take
responsibility for the part we played in putting Suddam Hussein
in power and that we turned our back when he was using chemical
weapons. She added the American people need to be told the truth
and she is totally against HJR 18 but she absolutely supports
the troops.
NINA MOLLET said she was unhappy that the hearing for HJR 18
wasn't noticed. She was sure a large number of Juneau residents
would have attended if they had knowledge of the hearing.
According to the Juneau Empire, there were 1,500 participants at
one peace rally. There have also been weekly meetings to discuss
peace rather than war with Iraq.
She said she didn't have prepared comments because she didn't
know about the meeting until the last minute. She added, "I
don't know whether this was deliberate or some kind of mistake."
CHAIR GARY STEVENS explained the five-day rule [Uniform Rule 23]
was waived on the Senate floor on 3/27/03.
MS. MOLLETT pointed out when you look at the schedule you didn't
see that this was being considered and people didn't know.
She noted there was a moving letter in the Juneau Empire
thanking people who disagreed with the war for attending the
rally. She added, "This is a very divisive resolution and it
would be much better to have a resolution that more people would
feel comfortable with." It's deliberately divisive and is trying
to put democrats on the defensive so that if they don't go along
with the resolution they'll be attacked as being unpatriotic.
She said the rest of the world sees the history of Saddam
Hussein differently than the U.S. does because he was placed in
power by the United States in a military coup. She pointed out
the U.S. doesn't have a very good reputation in that area for
bringing freedom. "This is very simplistically worded that we
are fighting for their freedom."
She quoted from the Kurdistan Democratic Party opposition that
has been shut out by the Bush Administration. "There is a
difference between a war of liberation and a war of conquest.
Liberation means Iraqis are at the forefront. Conquest means the
invaders are in charge." She urged the Legislature to pass a
resolution supporting the troops that she could sign. Judging
from the letters to the editor, this resolution alienates a huge
population. HJR 18 shuts out people who are patriotic but don't
feel the war in Iraq is a just war.
SENATOR GUESS stated that as a member of the Senate she is
always ready to admit her mistakes and she wanted to extend her
apologies for waiving the five-day notification rule. It was
done for the right reason, which was the rally on Friday, March
28, 2003. There was no other motive in doing so. She doesn't
view the resolution as an attempt to put Democrats on the
defensive and the Representative from Anchorage has good
intentions regarding supporting the troops.
As the sole Democrat member in attendance, she wanted it stated
in the record she does not take issue with the Representative's
motives and she disagrees with Ms. Mollett's interpretation.
MS. MOLLETT replied she was not impugning his motives in
particular, but she knows what happens at election time and she
knows some Democratic legislators in the state who have felt
isolated after speaking against a resolution on principle.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS asked whether there were further comments.
SENATOR GUESS replied no one was more aware than she of some of
those votes, but she wanted to make it clear that, "We try not
to impugn the motives of people."
SENATOR COWDERY commented there is never 100 percent on
anything, but the majority of Americans support this effort.
SISTER DIANE BARDOL from Kodiak opposed HJR 18 because the
resolution seems to say that to support the troops you must
support United States' involvement in war in Iraq. To her,
supporting the troops means bringing them home and stopping war.
The last few lines of the resolution states resolve to support
President George W. Bush as this nation is engaged in combat.
This appears to be the primary purpose of HJR 18 and secondarily
it expresses support to the men and women in the armed services
and the coalition. If her brother or nephews were engaged in
this war, she wouldn't be slightly comforted by a resolution
such as HJR 18.
KATE FINN from Anchor Point opposed HJR 18 as a member of
Kindness Without Boarders. She didn't have the time to prepare a
statement because of the way the bill was noticed. However, she
felt she could be quite succinct and say she did not support the
President on his position in Iraq at all. If she were in the
armed forces she would not be the least bit comforted by this
resolution. If the true intent of the resolution was to show
support for the troops, "It's way off target." The Fairbanks
Coalition for Peace and Justice made a resolution that is on
record as of March 28 and clearly supports the troops. She
suggested using that resolution as a model if the intent of HJR
18 was indeed to support the troops. Personally, she abhors the
war and believes we are in it for the wrong reasons. She thinks
the President is being dishonest with U.S. citizens. If we knew
the real motivation we might feel differently, but we truly
don't know what we're doing there. She said, "I will object to
this war till the last day and I support our troops
completely... I don't object to them being there, it's what
they're doing."
The resolution doesn't do its stated intent and there is a
better one in place to make that happen. She said, "You do not
have the support of a large percentage of the Alaska
population."
ALANA GREAR from Homer opposed HJR 18. Additionally, she and the
people in the Homer office took issue with Senator Cowdery's
comments regarding University funding.
ROBERT WARD from Homer opposed HJR 18. He was unable to read his
prepared statement, but if the intent was to support the troops,
it shouldn't include support for the President in the same
document. "The President is currently engaged in an illegal war
which goes against all normal international law including the
United Nations Charter." If the President truly supports the
troops he asked why he is leaving veteran health care and
education needs short funded.
He advised he would send the Chair a copy of his testimony.
JIM SYKES testified from the Mat-Su LIO in opposition to HJR 18.
He read the following from a letter. "I'm a vet, a former
infantryman who has recently taken up the unappreciated task of
removing unexploded ordinance [munitions] from various
locations. I completely understand and appreciate all those who
want to support those of us in uniform. However, there seems to
be a pretty wide gulf between those who support us by wanting us
all to come home safe and those who claim to support us by
wanting us to go to war and apparently stay there. If I actually
believed we would want to put a real democracy in the Middle
East, maybe I would be more supportive. Call me cynical, but I
just don't see it happening."
As Senator Robert Byrd said, "This is a war of choice, not a war
of necessity." He added he has attended a number of peace
rallies and has yet to meet any who oppose the men and women in
uniform. Veterans who have never attended a demonstration before
have participated. There is no question regarding the universal
support for the uniformed forces; the opposition arises from
President Bush's policy for war.
He said the committee had three options: to pass no resolution,
to pass HJR 18, or to amend HJR 18. He proposed passing a
resolution that unifies Alaskans rather than one that divides
them. He suggested the following:
· Keep the first "WHEREAS"
· Keep the "WHEREAS" at the top of page 2 and change the
wording as set forth in amendment 1
· Keep the "FURTHER RESOLVED" as the only "RESOLVED"
· Strike the balance of the resolution
CHRIS RIGGIO from Anchorage testified in opposition to HJR 18.
He advised he would fax his testimony to the Chair. He read the
following shortened version:
I've been a resident of Alaska since 1993. I'm also a
former officer in the United States Air Force and I
served in the Persian Gulf during 1990 and 1991. I've
seen war and I'm against the blind use of violence to
solve international problems. I'm here today on behalf
of the Iraqi people, the American troops and their
families, and millions of Americans who cannot be here
today to speak out against this war in Iraq.
More specifically, I'm here today to voice my strong
opposition to HJR 18. This invasion of Iraq is
immoral, illegal, and unjust. This war is also in
violation of international law as well as the United
Nations Charter. President Bush's arguments for this
inappropriate use of force are illegitimate and
unsupported by facts.
I urge you to consider the grim realities of this
conflict. This war is about oil and imperialism. Over
one week ago Congress nearly unanimously supported a
resolution similar to HJR 18 supporting the war and
supporting the troops. But less than one week earlier
Congress also passed a bill drastically cutting
support to the Veterans Administration which is
already limping along and unable to support all of its
several million veterans from WW II, Korea, Vietnam,
Gulf War I and hundreds of other U.S. military actions
throughout the world. We still haven't figured out
what is wrong with the thousands of veterans suffering
from the Gulf War Syndrome.
Who are we supporting with these ridiculous
resolutions? Is it really the Bush Administration and
the multi-national corporations who are lined up at
the feeding trough for pieces of Iraq who we are
supporting? And yet there will be thousands of U.S.
veterans from this war who will need help dealing with
the physical and emotional problems resulting, but
they will likely be abandoned by their country at that
point.
Let's support our troops by calling an end to this
illegal war and stopping the killing of Iraqi
citizens, Iraqi military, and U.S. soldiers. Let us
end this slaughter, this bloodshed and destruction of
life on earth. Let the inspections work. Let's act
like a global citizen instead of a global tyrant. Let
us work with the international community instead of
unilaterally against it.
Again, I urge you to end debate on HJR 18 and shelve
this proposal for eternity. I strongly encourage you
to have a backbone, unlike our Congress, and stand up
for what is right and just and pass a resolution
condemning this destructive war. Please, for the sake
of human life, our children and our Earth, do what is
right.
KATHLEEN McCLELLAN from Anchorage testified in opposition to HJR
18. She has been active in Alaskan's for Peace and Justice and
there are many people that would have come to oppose the
resolution had they known they could express their views at a
hearing. She supports the troops but opposes the resolution
based on her opposition to the expressions in support of the
war. She supports bringing the troops home from an unjust and
illegal conflict. It's hypocritical to cut veteran benefits at
the same that you claim to support the troops.
4:10 pm
Saddam Hussein may have posed a threat to his neighbors but it
has never been proven that he poses a threat to U.S. security.
He becomes a threat when we attack him, but he has never had the
ability to attack the U.S. from his soil. Just because the
Administration has repeated that Saddam Hussein is linked to
September 11 doesn't make it a truth. There has been no
substantiated evidence of that link.
STACEY FRITZ from Fairbanks testified on behalf of No Nukes
North and the Fairbanks Coalition for Peace and Justice in
opposition to HJR 18. She advised the following resolution
speaks for 194 constituents:
BE IT NOW RESOLVED BY
THE FAIRBANKS COALITION FOR PEACE
AND JUSTICE:
WHEREAS the men and women of the United States
Armed Forces have been sent into battle in Iraq; and
WHEREAS the men and women of the United States
Armed Forces must sacrifice their personal safety in duty
and service to their country; and
WHEREAS the men and women of the United States
Armed Forces have made the ultimate sacrifice; and
WHEREAS the men and women of the United States
Armed Forces must leave their families, their spouses,
partners and children, for an uncertain and prolonged
period of time; and
WHEREAS the men and women of the United States
Armed Forces believe that they are fighting for the
liberation of the Iraqi people; and
WHEREAS the men and women of the United States
Armed Forces may be required to remain in Iraq for
several years to assist in the restoration of peace and
rebuilding of the nation's infrastructure;
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Fairbanks
Coalition for Peace and Justice honors the brave men and
women engaged in the conflict in Iraq; and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Fairbanks Coalition for Peace and
Justice will continue to work for a swift resolution to the
conflict so as to minimize all loss of life; and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Fairbanks Peace Coalition will
steadfastly petition our nation's government to honor its
commitment to the men and women of the United States Armed
Forces to provide full health care, disability pay,
education and all other just and equitable benefits to our
veterans and their families.
FURTHERMORE:
WHEREAS the present conflict in Iraq is neither just nor
legal under recognized international law; and
WHEREAS the President of the United States and his
administration did enter into this unjust and illegal
conflict willfully; and
WHEREAS the President of the United States and his
administration did undermine the diplomatic processes of
the United Nations by knowingly providing false documents
and incomplete intelligence regarding Iraq's involvement;
and
WHEREAS the President of the United States and his
administration promoted the unsubstantiated notion that
Iraq was linked to the September 11 terrorist acts; and
WHEREAS the President of the United States and his
administration did circumvent the United Nations
inspections and declare a so-called "preventive war" on
Iraq when that nation offered no clear and present danger
to the United States;
BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED that the Fairbanks Coalition for
Peace and Justice believes these actions of the President
of the United States and his administration to be
impeachable offenses; and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Fairbanks Coalition for Peace and
Justice will join the rest of the world in demanding a full
accounting of the loss of life, both military and civilian;
and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Fairbanks Coalition for Peace and
Justice will work for electoral reform to provide honest
representation of the will of the People of the United
States; and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Fairbanks Coalition for Peace and
Justice will steadfastly petition that the United States
Congress shall adequately fund all necessary humanitarian
aid to the people of Iraq and shall pay for the
reconstruction of all damage to the Iraqi infrastructure;
and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Fairbanks Coalition for Peace and
Justice will join the rest of the world in calling upon the
United States government to involve the United Nations
fully in the reconstruction of Iraq's government, economy
and infrastructure; and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Fairbanks Coalition for Peace and
Justice will continue to work for peace and justice in
Iraq, the United States and all nations, thereby ensuring
that the men and women of the United States Armed Forces
will never again sacrifice their lives and health in an
unjust and illegal attack on any nation.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS asked Ms. Fritz to sent a copy of the
resolution.
MS. FRITZ replied she would do so.
RYAN TINSLEY agreed with all the preceding comments. Members of
19 Alaskan communities and two other states signed the
resolution Ms. Fritz read. The movement against the war consists
of over 200 nations. When Desmond Tutu called for a vigil, it
happened in two days. In 129 different countries there were
6,000 different vigils.
For the Legislature to put forth a resolution that divides
Alaska and supports the President who is losing a popularity
contest with Saddam Hussein is uncalled for. He supports the
troops, but not the war.
DOUGLAS LEGGETT from Fairbanks opposed HJR 18. He said he has
been a law abiding citizen his entire life. He loves his country
and he wishes to support the troops, but he can't condone an
action that supports the U.S. breaking the law.
MARILYN RUSSELL from Fairbanks opposed HJR 18. She does not give
her consent for the resolution as written. She agrees with those
who spoke previously. She challenged legislators to speak up
against the resolution.
SIDE B
4:20 pm
CHAIR GARY STEVENS announced everyone that signed up to testify
had done so. He asked whether there were questions of
Representative Lynn.
SENATOR GUESS noted the testimony was powerful and the one point
of agreement was to support the troops. She asked whether the
Representative had given consideration to amending the
resolution to support the troops and not include the war.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN replied,
I sat here and listened to the testimony and in one
respect it makes me proud to be an American to know
that we can hear this type of testimony. I regret some
of the ad hominem remarks that were made and my
emotions, as I've listened to this, have ranged
between anger, the urge to vomit, but probably more
accurately sadness. Very sad testimony to hear what
all of us have heard today because I do think we need
to support our troops. And I might point out our
President is in fact the Commander-in-Chief of our
armed services. He also is a member of the military
and a military person knows that. If we were to
substitute with Saddam Hussein, the words "Adolph
Hitler" before World War II started would these people
be thinking the same thing? I hope they would not.
I think the part talking about supporting the troops
and the background of why the troops need to be
supported and why they're there is like the left hand
and the right hand. We looked at several versions of
this, we've talked about it, we've discussed almost
every "Whereas" in here. I think it would be a sad day
when we can't support our troops and give the
condemnation to Saddam Hussein that he deserves.
I'm not prepared to state that every action in the
history of the world that has lead up to this thing
has always been as proper as it should be.
Nonetheless, we live in the real world and the real
world is we are in fact in danger of international
terrorism as was amply demonstrated by 9/ll. It's been
very fortunate we haven't had any further acts of that
type...
When you are serving in combat it's a shallow argument
to say we support the troops, but we don't support the
fellow who sent you there. We're all for you guys
coming home safe, but you shouldn't be there to begin
with. If you shouldn't be there to begin with, and
people tell you this. What do you think that does for
a person's morale? In addition to bombs and bullets,
the most important things to winning any kind of armed
conflict is your morale.... When you attack the
Commander-in-Chief, who also happens to be the
President of the United States, you are attacking a
troop and that's the military viewpoint.
All these people talk today, and God bless their right
to be able to do that. I don't know how many people we
had at the rally the other day. It's too bad that
these folks were not here testifying. They're probably
out working for a living and I urge your support of
it. No resolution is perfect; I think this works.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS called for further questions or comments.
SENATOR COWDERY noted all 40 members of the House supported this
resolution.
He made a motion to move SCS CSHJR 18 (STA) and zero fiscal note
from committee. There being no objection, it was so ordered.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS reminded everyone the resolution would move
to the Senate floor. He encouraged everyone who participated to
contact his or her Senator.
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