Legislature(1999 - 2000)
03/03/1999 01:10 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HJR 9 - DESTROY BRADY BILL RECORDS
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the first order of business is HJR 9,
Urging the President of the United States and the Congress to act
to ensure that federal agencies do not retain records relating to
lawful purchase or ownership of firearms gathered through the Brady
Handgun Bill instant check system.
CHAIRMAN KOTT called on Representative Eric Croft, sponsor of the
bill.
Number 0123
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated HJR 9 deals with a conflict between the
statutes authorizing the instant check system for gun purchases of
the Brady Handgun Bill and the regulations promulgated pursuant to
those statutes. In other words, the regulations implementing the
instant check system do not fit with the statutes. The Brady
Handgun Bill specifically said that there will not be a federal
registry of lawful gun owners. The language from the Brady Handgun
Bill reads, "all records shall be destroyed of the system with
respect to the call other than the identifying number and date and
all records system relating to the person or transfer." In his
opinion, that language is clear. The regulations originally said
that records could be kept for 18 months then it was reduced to 6
months, and as Representative Murkowski noted before the meeting
started a possible further reduction was considered on February 28,
1999. He is not aware of the results of that meeting, however. It
was not a matter of revisiting whether or not to keep the records
at all, but just a change in the period of retention. Although the
statute passed by Congress, did not say immediately destroy, there
is a difference between the term "keeping" and the term
"destroying". In this case, the regulations propose keeping not
destroying.
Number 0349
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked Representative Croft if it is
reduced to a 48-hour retention for example, as the result of the
review, what would that do to the joint resolution.
Number 0375
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT replied if it is reduced to zero the
resolution is not needed. Forty-eight hours makes it less
troublesome, but any keeping of records is troublesome from a legal
standpoint because the regulations do not comply with the statutes.
In addition, this is such a hot topic and a well-known concern in
the gun owner community that a conscious decision should be made up
front. Mr. Del Smith from the Department of Public Safety will
testify that the state did not need to keep this information for
audits or any other purposes when it managed the information. An
audit can be done with the identifying number and date - what the
statute allows.
Number 0504
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Representative Croft whether he is aware of any
abuses in regards to record keeping.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT replied keeping records is an abuse, but he is
not aware of them being used for any other purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT opened the meeting up to public testimony.
Number 0570
BRIAN JUDY, Alaska State Liaison, National Rifle Association of
America (NRA), Institute for Legislative Action, testified via
teleconference from California. He is speaking on behalf of the
NRA members in Alaska in strong support of HJR 9. In 1993, the NRA
worked closely with Congress in drafting the law that created the
national instant check system - the Brady Handgun Bill. The main
inference of the NRA was to ensure privacy for firearm owners, and
one of the provisions was to destroy the records. The Brady
Handgun Bill says that no governmental agency may require any
record to be recorded or transferred at a governmental facility and
that facility can't use a system to create a registration system or
transaction, except with respect to those prohibited from receiving
a firearm. The Brady Handgun Bill specifically says that all
records will be destroyed for law abiding citizens, except for the
transaction identification number and the date of transaction.
History has shown that firearm registration systems have led to
firearm confiscation mandates, and NRA members clearly understand
that the creating of a gun registration system is a major step
towards the destruction of the Second Amendment of the U.S.
Constitution. In addition, he agrees with Representative Croft
that any retention - 18 months, 6 months, 48 hours - is contrary to
the law for law abiding citizens. Furthermore, of the hundreds of
thousands that the Brady Handgun Bill has stopped from purchasing
firearms only about seven have been prosecuted. In conclusion, he
reiterated the law provides that information be maintained on the
bad guys and that zero information be maintained on the law abiding
citizens.
Number 0814
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Mr. Judy whether he is aware of any abuses of
information currently being held.
MR. JUDY replied keeping records is an abuse of the law and
contrary to its intent, but he doesn't know whether they have been
used for any particular person.
Number 0848
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Judy how the Brady Handgun Bill
squares with local jurisdictions and requirements for handgun
registrations.
Number 0874
MR. JUDY replied it is a question that hasn't been resolved. He
cited the state of California maintains records of handgun
purchasers. He explained the federal law only restricts the
maintenance of records by the federal government. But, the extent
that California is acting as an agent of the federal government,
for example, is a question that hasn't been resolved. It is
feasible that the state may be prohibited from maintaining records
as well. A lot of gun owners would like to see that happen.
Number 1016
CARL ROSIER, Vice President, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC); Board
Member, Territorial Sportsman Incorporated (TSI), testified in
Juneau. For many years these organizations have been strong
supporters of shooting sports as well as a citizen's right to
purchase, use and keep firearms in a responsible manner. It is a
pleasure to see the strong bipartisan support of HJR 9 reflected in
the sponsorship and cosponsorship. These organizations believe
that the Brady Handgun Bill clearly indicated that once the instant
check was completed there is no justification or rationale for
maintenance of records on a legally qualified buyer. These
organizations believe that it is a subversion of the law with
further potential to invade rights of law abiding citizens. Who
knows how the information will be used? Who knows who might have
access to those records? What prevents a 6-month retention of
records from being extended to 12 months? What law abiding citizen
wishes to have a Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) file for a
day let alone six months for simply purchasing a legal firearm?
The Brady Handgun Bill was quite clear in its intent and once again
federal agencies are attempting to go beyond the congressional
authority granted to them. Those efforts, if not corrected, do
nothing but undermine the trust of government by law abiding
citizens. These organizations strongly support HJR 9 and urge the
legislature to move it through the legislative process
expeditiously. He said, "Let's protect the provision of our Second
Amendment rights."
Number 1161
DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Public Safety,
testified in Juneau. From 1994 to November 30, 1998, under the
original provisions of the Brady Handgun Bill, the state did not
retain any records of those legally authorized to purchase a
weapon. The records were immediately destroyed within a couple of
minutes. He cited during that time 57,500 checks were done by
state and local law enforcement agencies of which 1,532 were
denied. Nationally, there were 242,000 rejections out of 10.4
million requests to purchase a firearm.
Number 1249
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Mr. Smith to explain the reasons why 1,532
would be denied a permit.
MR. SMITH replied primarily they would be prohibited or denied a
permit because of crimes committed, mental issues, or domestic
violence convictions, for example.
Number 1307
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Smith whether there are any
municipal registration requirements for firearms in the state.
MR. SMITH replied not that he knows of.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Smith whether there is a
prohibition in statute prohibiting that.
MR. SMITH replied he can't quote one off the top of his head.
According to his understanding, the registration of firearms is
neither required nor allowed. In fact, under the concealed handgun
program, the state makes sure that no records are kept other than
what a person qualifies with and that information is not available
to anybody but the Department of Public Safety.
Number 1392
CHAIRMAN KOTT called for an at-ease at 1:32 p.m. and called the
meeting back to order at 1:34 p.m.
Number 1401
SCOTT T. CALDER testified via teleconference from Fairbanks. He
referred to page 2, line 4, "WHEREAS the actions of the FBI are
contrary to both the letter and the spirit of the Brady Handgun
Bill and further erode the constitutional right of Alaskans to keep
and bear arms;". He stated it is a real important concept and the
people need to hear about it more from the legislators. This type
of concern is the reason for the Second Amendment of the U.S.
Constitution. One of the reasons there are social problems
attributed to gun ownership, bad weather, bad parents and
everything else is because there is this type of intrusion into our
daily lives. He applauded the sponsor of the resolution and
encouraged any method to make it stronger or find a way to
participate without being threatened.
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that any infringement upon a federal
constitutional right is alarming.
Number 1543
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Representative Croft why a copy of
the resolution is not being directed to the director of the FBI.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT replied he should have thought of that. He
has no objection to including it.
Number 1564
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG made a conceptual motion to include the
director of the FBI in the "COPIES" section of the resolution.
There being no objection, it was so moved.
Number 1600
CHAIR JAMES made a motion to move HJR 9, as amended, from the
committee with individual recommendations. There being no
objection, CSHJR 9(JUD) was so moved from the House Judiciary
Standing Committee.
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