Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 17

01/28/2008 03:00 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 315 EXTEND BIG GAME COMMERCIAL SERVICES BOARD TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
*+ HB 320 SEARCH & RESCUE: CERTIFICATION/WORK.COMP TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
HB 315-EXTEND BIG GAME COMMERCIAL SERVICES BOARD                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:03:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON  announced that the  first order of business  would be                                                              
HOUSE  BILL NO. 315,  "An Act  extending the  termination  date of                                                              
the  Big Game  Commercial  Services Board;  and  providing for  an                                                              
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:03:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LINDA HAY,  Staff to  Representative Ralph  Samuels, Alaska  State                                                              
Legislature,  explained   that  HB  315  was  introduced   by  the                                                              
Legislative  Budget  and  Audit  Committee and  would  extend  the                                                              
sunset  date of  the Big  Game Commercial  Services Board  (BGCSB)                                                              
until  June  30,  2012,  which   complies  with  the  Division  of                                                              
Legislative Audit  which recently  reviewed the activities  of the                                                              
BGCSB.   She  said that  Pat Davidson,  Legislative Auditor,  will                                                              
walk the  committee through  the findings  and recommendations  of                                                              
the audit.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:03:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAT  DAVIDSON,   Legislative  Auditor,  Division   of  Legislative                                                              
Audit, Alaska State  Legislature, explained that  the audit report                                                              
recommended  the  following  statutory  change:    to  extend  the                                                              
termination date  to 2012, which  is a four-year extension  of the                                                              
BGCSB.    She  noted  that  oftentimes  an  audit  will  recommend                                                              
extending  a  board for  eight  years,  but  since the  BGCSB  was                                                              
reconstituted   only  a   couple   of  years   ago,  the   auditor                                                              
recommended   extending  the   board  only   four  years.     That                                                              
recommendation allows  the auditors to  review how well  the BGCSB                                                              
is functioning  in four years and  to address any  issues earlier.                                                              
The  other issues  identified  in  the audit  were  administrative                                                              
issues  that  needed   to  be  dealt  with  by   the  Division  of                                                              
Occupational  Licensing,  Department  of  Commerce,  Community,  &                                                              
Economic  Development  (DCCED).   She  said that  no  deficiencies                                                              
surfaced with the BGCSB.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:04:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH  asked Ms. Davidson to review  the first three                                                              
finding and recommendations as listed on page 9 of the audit.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DAVIDSON  reviewed  the  findings   and  recommendations  and                                                              
stated   that  the   audit  recommends   that   the  Division   of                                                              
Corporations,  Business,  and  Professional  Licensing  should  be                                                              
certain that its  staff assigned to the BGCSB  adheres to statute,                                                              
regulations, and  policy and procedures  for efficient  support of                                                              
the BGCSB's  day-to-day operations.   She noted  that some  of the                                                              
licensing  files were missing  certain documents.   She  explained                                                              
that generally  the auditor  examines files  for completeness  and                                                              
follows-up  on  any  deficiencies.     In  this  case,  the  audit                                                              
identified  that  the  licensing  examiner  needs  to  gather  and                                                              
compile  additional  information   for  the  individual  licensing                                                              
files.   With  regard  to  the second  recommendation,  the  audit                                                              
revealed  that  one  examination  did  not  have  adequate  public                                                              
notice.   While the aforementioned  is a  problem, if a  person is                                                              
sitting  for  an exam,  he/she  is  not  generally going  to  rely                                                              
solely on  the public notice  of the examination  for information.                                                              
Although the audit  revealed public noticing as  a deficiency that                                                              
should  be addressed,  it was not  of substantial  concern  to the                                                              
auditor, she  related.   The third finding  was that  the proposed                                                              
regulations  issued  by the  BGCSB  were not  issued  in a  timely                                                              
manner.   She said  the auditor found  that the licensing  support                                                              
for this  board was not "up  to snuff".  Although  staff attempted                                                              
to  public notice  the regulations  and  put them  in draft  form,                                                              
they did  not follow  the right  sequence.   Normally these  items                                                              
individually would  not warrant a  recommendation, but taken  as a                                                              
whole,  the  auditor  found  the   deficiencies  were  significant                                                              
enough to warrant a recommendation to DCCED.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:07:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BUCH  inquired as  to  whether these  issues  have                                                              
been resolved to the auditor's satisfaction.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON answered  that DCCED responded that  it would address                                                              
the issues, and did make some staff changes.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN requested  that  Ms.  Davidson explain  the                                                              
recommendation to review licensing fees.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DAVIDSON  explained   that  the  BGCSB  is   required  to  be                                                              
financially supported  by its  fees.  The  auditor found  that the                                                              
costs  of operating  the  board  exceeded its  incoming  revenues.                                                              
While the auditor  does not recommend which particular  fee should                                                              
be addressed,  the auditor  does identify  that the revenues  need                                                              
to be  increased.   She explained  that is up  to the  division to                                                              
ensure  that  the  fees  are  sufficient;  however,  the  division                                                              
usually works  with the  board to determine  which fees  should be                                                              
increased.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:09:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  inquired as  to whether fee  increases will                                                              
mean an increase in hunting license fees.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON  said  that the fees  are license  fees generated  by                                                              
master  guide-outfitters,  registered  guide-outfitters,  Class  A                                                              
assistant guide-outfitters,  and assistant guide-outfitters.   The                                                              
sport  hunting and  fishing license  fees and  do not support  the                                                              
BGCSB, but are deposited into the Fish and Game Fund.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN asked  who  currently serves  on the  state                                                              
lands subcommittee of the BGCSB.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON said she did not know.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:10:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL JOHNSON, Chair,  Big Game Commercial Services  Board (BGCSB),                                                              
stated  that  the   primary  member  of  the  BGCSB   State  Lands                                                              
subcommittee  is Robert  Fithian.   The  State Lands  subcommittee                                                              
was formed  by the BGCSB to  identify and address  problems guide-                                                              
outfitters   had  encountered   on   state  lands   and  to   make                                                              
recommendations   to  the  board.     He  said  the   subcommittee                                                              
identified some ethical  issues that the BGCSB dealt  with and Mr.                                                              
Fithian  has   been  working  with   the  Department   of  Natural                                                              
Resources (DNR) to resolve other issues.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON, in  response to a question by  Representative Neuman,                                                              
said  that the  State Lands  Subcommittee was  established by  the                                                              
BGCSB  and is  charged  to identify  problems  and coordinate  its                                                              
efforts with  state agencies.  He  noted that Mr. Fithian  has had                                                              
major  discussions  with  the  Department   of  Natural  Resources                                                              
(DNR).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:12:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  asked  more specifically  about  the  work                                                              
done by the state lands subcommittee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.   JOHNSON  further   responded   that  when   the  BGCSB   was                                                              
reactivated a  couple of years  ago, a number of  guide-outfitters                                                              
who guide-outfit  on state  lands complained  that the  permitting                                                              
process and  rules are  complex.   He added  that while  the BGCSB                                                              
would like  to take action to  address the issues  identified, the                                                              
BGCSB lacks the statutory authority to do so.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:13:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE    GATTO   asked    for   clarification    of   the                                                              
recommendation   that  recommends   that  the   board  cease   the                                                              
electronic   accumulation  of  information   gathered   from  hunt                                                              
records and transporter  reports.  He opined that  sometimes it is                                                              
best to not collect  information because it is just  stored and is                                                              
unusable information.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON explained  that the auditor's role is  to control and                                                              
verify  data,   and  therefore   the  recommendation   was  highly                                                              
unusual.   However, prior to the  reinstatement of the  BGCSB, the                                                              
Division  of  Legislative  Audit  found  that  DCCED  was  keeping                                                              
enormous amounts  of records that  only the auditor ever  asked to                                                              
use.   She said  that the  auditor reviewed  the amount  of effort                                                              
involved  to  compile the  data,  and  while many  people  thought                                                              
[certain individuals]  were using the data, it seemed  that no one                                                              
was using  the data.   She  noted that  DCCED disagrees  with this                                                              
recommendation,  and therefore the  recommendation is  designed to                                                              
have  DCCED  identify  its  users  to  ensure  that  the  data  is                                                              
maintained in  a useable format for  the users.  She  related that                                                              
the auditor found  BGCSB staff in the process  of keypunching very                                                              
old  hunt records.    While that  data might  not  have been  used                                                              
because  it was  not  previously available,  considerable  efforts                                                              
were being  taken to enter the  data.  She suggested  that perhaps                                                              
a  digitized hunt  record with  a  searchable data  base might  be                                                              
used.   However,  until  the  users  are identified,  DCCED  staff                                                              
should not  invest a lot  of time and  energy into the  data entry                                                              
effort, she opined.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:15:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH  referred to a letter in  the committee packet                                                              
and asked whether  someone was present to speak to  the request by                                                              
Commissioner   Notti  that   DCCED  be  allowed   to  retain   the                                                              
information [contained in hunt records].                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON  reiterated that the  recommendation is based  on the                                                              
fact that no  one uses the records.   If users can  be identified,                                                              
the division is not opposed to the data being collected.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:16:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JENNIFER   STRICKLER,   Chief,  Professional   Licensing,   Juneau                                                              
Office,   Department   of   Commerce,    Community,   &   Economic                                                              
Development  (DCCED), related  that  the specific  requirement  to                                                              
collect  the  data  has been  a  statutory  requirement  for  many                                                              
years.    She  explained  that   guide-outfitters  must  submit  a                                                              
financial remuneration  form for each hunt, which is  by statute a                                                              
confidential  report that  represents  the guide/client  contract.                                                              
She  explained that  the  requirement for  the  report remains  in                                                              
statute, and thus  DCCED continues to collect the data.   The data                                                              
is used  primarily by  law enforcement  agencies, particularly  by                                                              
the  Department  of Public  Safety  enforcement officers.    There                                                              
does not  seem to be widespread  interest outside  law enforcement                                                              
agency requests  for the  hunt records, she  noted.   She outlined                                                              
the process a  licensing examiner follows when  a trooper requests                                                              
copies  of  hunt data,  and  that  the Division  of  Corporations,                                                              
Business,  and  Professional  Licensing  (DCBPL)  has  been  short                                                              
staffed so  that only  one licensing staff  assigned to  the BGCSB                                                              
is  available to  compile and  certify  copies of  the hunt  data.                                                              
Since  staff's   primary  duties  include  issuing   licenses  and                                                              
preparing for examinations,  the BGCSB staff has not  been able to                                                              
provide  hunt record  information in  a timely  manner.  She  said                                                              
that the  division is in  the process of  entering the data  in an                                                              
electronic  format   so  that   troopers  and  other   enforcement                                                              
agencies will  be able to  do their own  queries and  download the                                                              
specific reports.   She explained  that the DCCED has  reduced its                                                              
backlog  and  has   completed  the  data  entry   for  transporter                                                              
activity forms  from 1993 to  2007.  She  noted that  the division                                                              
is currently entering  guide-outfitter hunt records  for 2007, and                                                              
will work backwards year-by-year to capture the earlier data.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:19:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH  inquired as to whether other  states maintain                                                              
detailed hunt records.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STRICKLER said  she  was not  sure.   The  state and  federal                                                              
wildlife officers  support the division's efforts  to maintain the                                                              
hunt records, she related.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  pointed out  that  whether  to extend  the                                                              
BGCSB is the  matter before the committee.  She  expressed support                                                              
to extend the BGCSB.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OLSON  noted that  the  only  the  only matter  before  the                                                              
committee  with respect to  HB 315  is to  extend the BGCSB  until                                                              
2012.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON  explained that extending  the sunset date in  HB 315                                                              
is only  matter that currently requires  a statutory change.   The                                                              
auditor's report  provided meets  a statutory requirement  for the                                                              
Division  of  Legislative  Audit,  which  examines  a  variety  of                                                              
issues pertaining  to the BGCSB.   She noted that if  the auditors                                                              
had   found  substantial   ongoing  problems,   they  would   make                                                              
recommendations  for  statutory  changes  as remedies.    In  this                                                              
instance,  the  recommendations   are  more  for  the  committee's                                                              
information to better  understand how the board  functions and how                                                              
well  the staff  supports  the board  functions.    She noted  the                                                              
audit recommends a  four-year extension of the board,  and it also                                                              
highlights  some   areas  that   are  necessary  to   improve  the                                                              
administrative activities of the board.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:22:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER asked  if  anyone has  requested the  data                                                              
now that  it is accessible.   She  further asked whether  requests                                                              
are for data in the 1980s or for more recent year's hunts.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STRICKLER  responded  that   other  agencies  have  expressed                                                              
interest  in hunt  records.   In  fact, there  are  a few  pending                                                              
requests,  including ones  from federal  enforcement officers  and                                                              
the DPS  officers in Fairbanks.   She highlighted that  any agency                                                              
requesting the  information must have  a secure web site  in order                                                              
to access the  information.  As  far as the data entry,  DCCED has                                                              
asked the BGCSB  whether it can cut  off at a certain  date.  Some                                                              
agencies  have also  offered to  offset the costs  of data  entry,                                                              
but thus  far the  division has  yet to  formulate a specific  fee                                                              
for accessing the data, although it remains a possibility.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER added  that perhaps  charging a fee  would                                                              
help to offset the  $55,000 deficit of the BGCSB,  and inquired as                                                              
to whether the records need to go back as far as 15-20 years.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:25:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DAVIDSON, responded  to a  question  by Representative  Gatto                                                              
whether  the board  membership was  lopsided,  answered that  with                                                              
respect to  the number  of public members  on the board  vis-à-vis                                                              
the number  of guide-outfitters  serving on  the board,  that most                                                              
occupational  licensing  boards  have  a  majority  membership  of                                                              
licensed professionals to represent the board.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:25:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON  stated that, in his  view, the 10-year gap  without a                                                              
board did not  help the industry,  although in some ways  it was a                                                              
healthy  process.    He  noted that  guide-outfitting  is  a  $200                                                              
million  industry  for the  state.    In  response to  an  earlier                                                              
question  about hunt  records, he  recommended  that the  division                                                              
maintain at  least three years of  back records.  He  offered that                                                              
the  nine-member board  consists of  two members  who are  private                                                              
landholders,  two members  who are transporters,  two members  who                                                              
are  registered guides,  [two]  who are  public  members, and  one                                                              
member  who  serves on  the  Board  of  Game  and functions  as  a                                                              
liaison between  the BGCSB and  the Board of  Game.  He  asked the                                                              
committee to support extending the BGCSB until 2012.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:27:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN inquired  as to  whether a  person needs  a                                                              
transporter's  license to transport  game by  air.  For  instance,                                                              
would  a constituent  who lives  near Skwentna  and hunts,  need a                                                              
transporter's license.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JOHNSON answered  that there  is not  a specific  requirement                                                              
for a  transporter's license  in order to  transport game  by air.                                                              
However, if  the person who  is transporting game  is compensated,                                                              
then he/she must  hold a commercial operator's  certificate issued                                                              
by  the Federal  Aviation  Administration  (FAA)  under Part  135,                                                              
which  allows an  operator to  charge more  than a  point-to-point                                                              
fee.    The operator  would  also  have  to have  a  transporter's                                                              
license.  He noted  there have not been any recent  changes to the                                                              
transporter requirements.   He gave a history of  the BGCSB, which                                                              
he said stemmed  from a task force chaired by Henry  Springer that                                                              
was  created in  1991, when  the Guide  Board was  changed to  the                                                              
BGCSB.   The  BGCSB  sunset  happened in  1995  over  a litany  of                                                              
issues,  but   nothing  has  changed   since  1991  in   terms  of                                                              
qualifications, he stated.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:29:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN posed an  example in  which he  hunted with                                                              
his friend  in Skwentna.   He  asked whether  the friend  would be                                                              
required  to have a  transporter's  license in  order to haul  his                                                              
gear or transport his moose.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON  specified  that if  the constituent  is paid  for his                                                              
services, he  would be required  to have a transporter's  license.                                                              
He  outlined the  requirements for  a  transporter license,  which                                                              
include:      an  application,   fees,   activity   reports,   and                                                              
documentation  whether he/she  provides air  services and  holds a                                                              
commercial operator's  certificate issued by the  Federal Aviation                                                              
Administration (FAA) under Part 135, and proof of insurance.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:30:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN inquired  as  to whether  someone would  be                                                              
issued a citation for transporting game without a license.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JOHNSON answered  yes,  and added  that  several people  have                                                              
been  cited for  not following  the  reporting requirements  under                                                              
state statute.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:31:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD  ROHRER,  Big  Game  Commercial   Services  Board  (BGCSB)                                                              
Guide-Outfitter   board  member,   encouraged  the  committee   to                                                              
reauthorize the BGCSB.   He explained that the  BGCSB members work                                                              
well together and that he is available to answer questions.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:32:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON upon  determining no one else wished to  testify on HB
315 closed the public testimony.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:32:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER moved to  report HB 315  out of  the House                                                              
Labor   and   Commerce   Standing    Committee   with   individual                                                              
recommendations  and the accompanying  fiscal notes.   There being                                                              
no  objection,  HB 315  was  reported  from  the House  Labor  and                                                              
Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                                                    

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