Legislature(2003 - 2004)
05/08/2003 02:16 PM House FIN
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HOUSE BILL NO. 210
An Act relating to the Chitina dip net fishery; and
providing for an effective date.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COGHILL advised that HB 210 would
eliminate the $25 dollar fee for a Chitina Dip netting
permit. In 2000, the Legislature imposed the increased fee
to guarantee access to the fishery by utilizing $18 dollar
per permit to pay AHTNA and Chitina Corporations a
trespassing fee for river access across their land.
Legislation promoted by Senator Pete Kelly provided funding
to undertake a survey in 2001. There was a specific
$100,000 dollar appropriation for survey and signs. The
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOTPF) was
able to obtain the person who had done the majority of
surveying for native allotments using aerial photography.
There is approximately $54,000 dollars remaining for the
brochure design and printing costs. DOTPF indicated that
enough remains and would include two information signs
placed at the Pavilion and O'Brien.
Representative Coghill pointed out that the results of the
survey indicate that the vast majority of access to the
river is public land, thus, there should be no reason for
people to trespass on private lands to access the Chitina
fisheries. One key facet of the legislation is to make sure
the public access is adequately marked in order to protect
private property owners from trespassing.
Last year Gordy Williams, legislative liaison, testified
that the Chitina dip net fishery is the largest in the State
and in 2001, the Department of Fish and Game issued over
8,000 household permits. The elimination of the fee is a
policy call, stipulating that Chitina is the only fishery in
the State that has been singled out to pay a maintenance
fee. Representative Coghill maintained that Chitina should
be handled in the same manner as all other fisheries.
JOE HART, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), GENERAL MANAGER,
CHITINA NATIVE CORPORATION, GLENNALLEN, submitted comments
on the proposed legislation. He emphasized the following
points and addressed the impacts that the dip netters have
and the pressures placed on private property. He commented
that those concerns seem to be overlooked.
· Cutting of trees
· Building of new trails
· Fire rings and fires
· Left behind trash at campsites
· Parking and camping
· Shooting
· Fish remains from cleaning
Mr. Hart listed the pressures on the community and services:
· Dumping of trash prior to leaving Chitina in
available dumpsters
· Stress placed on very limited emergency medical
services
· Additional and heavy traffic, speeding and damage
to roads
· Increased use of laundry facilities and public
water wells
· Increased potential for forest fires requiring
additional monitoring by Chitina's volunteer fire
department
· Increased numbers of visitors for law enforcement
to deal with and monitor
Mr. Hart clarified that this is an access issue, regardless
of the fisheries classification and that the dip netters
will be accessing the Copper River across private property.
Comments have indicated that the fee structure should be
determined based upon classification. The access is the
same regardless of the classification and should not be a
factor in establishment of the fee. Access is access, and
that is what the fee is used for. The requirement of a
sport license should not impact the amount of the fee.
With the landslide south of O'Brien Creek closing the road,
the dip netters will be impacting private properties because
the right-of-way is closed at the slide. That creates a
very unsafe situation similar to what happened on the Denali
Highway several years ago. The State of Alaska closed the
highway, yet a car was allowed to travel the highway and the
passengers got stuck and froze. Such circumstance places
the State in a bad legal situation. That ground is unstable
and not scheduled to be repaired due to the large costs.
Mr. Hart continued, between 8,000 and 10,000 people descend
on the town with a population of 123, some making multiple
trips. During the height of the fishery, 2,000 people may
be present daily. Proportionately, that would be like
500,000 tourists descending on Juneau. Those people all
have trash and sewage, which must be disposed of. Unlike
Juneau, Chitina has no local police force for law
enforcement or other infrastructure.
Another concern is the misuse of the right-of-way. The
State of Alaska would not allow 10,000 people to camp and
recreate on the Glenn Highway in Anchorage. People have
suggested placing signs and fences. In the past, wooden
signs were used for firewood and metal signs for target
practice. Fencing of the property is not in the best
interest of the view shed, tourism or the Alaskan landscape.
The legal width of the right-of-way is not in agreement.
The legal case Chitina Native Corporation had against the
State of Alaska in the early 1990's was not pursued
aggressively because of a good faith offering by the State
of Alaska for the establishment of this fee. Now the State
wants to "back out" of the agreed position. He noted that
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities'
documentation indicates the same right-of-way at the end of
the McCarthy road, which is only 200 feet.
Mr. Hart claimed that the State of Alaska has a
responsibility to protect the private property located in
proximity to the fishery. The issue seems to be focused on
one side of that fishery where the right-of-way is located.
The fishermen use both sides of the river and do not stay
below the ordinary mean high water mark, which has never
been established by the State of Alaska or the Bureau of
Land Management (BLM) on the Copper River.
There are frequently releases of raw sewage from RV's along
the roadways and in the gravel pits. People clean their
fish at Suzy Lake and then leave the fish remains behind,
creating problem bears for the town. Chitina, a town of
only few dozen people, is left with the trash of 8,000 to
10,000 people. The dumpsters and toilet facilities
currently available now through the fees are not adequate.
The fear is that the dumpsters, toilets, or our lands will
become a dumping ground for the public.
Mr. Hart added that the funds for proper enforcement for the
fishery are not going to be increased, which means little or
no monitoring and enforcement of trespassing laws for the
State of Alaska private properties. The best solution for
the State of Alaska would be to continue its agreement for
incidental use of 75% of private property. The amount of
dip netters being represented by the Chitina Dipnet
Association is a very small minority consisting of
membership of only 500 people. Mr. Hart emphasized that
there are 9,000 to 10,000 dip netters who use the fishery
each season.
The negative impacts brought by the dip netters to Chitina
are growing. The Legislature is considering removing one of
the only funding sources for the Village to work with in
dealing with the pressures on all of the other properties
impacted by not only these users, but also all visitors to
the area. Leaving the fee in place would not deny anyone
access to the fishery and they would simply be asked by the
State of Alaska to assist in paying for the access to do so
and clean up the trash and toilets they use.
Before there was an agreement between the State, Chitina and
AHTNA, village members patrolled the lands and were met with
angry dip netters who were distraught because they could not
access the river. Many dip netters bring weapons with them
to Chitina, and when combined with alcohol, it creates an
unsafe situation. This could likely lead to a range war
situation where representatives may be injured or indeed
killed in the process of protecting the lands.
Mr. Hart added that although no one wants to address it,
Native lands are not viewed in the same light or treated
with the same respect as other private lands. Dip netters
would not wander, throw trash in, or relieve themselves in
someone's back yard in Kenai with the same abandoned that
they do in Chitina.
Mr. Hart recommended that the Committee not pass HB 210 and
allow the State of Alaska and the Department of Fish & Game
to enter into an agreement with a fee of $15 per permit for
the next year. There needs to be meetings focused on
looking at long-term solutions to the issues and concerns
raised. Members of departments from the State could be
requested to present answers to the many questions, and then
the private property owners could bring forward reasons for
compensation for the impacts. He stressed that the time is
short and that the dip net fishery opens in June and that
there is not enough time to deal with all the unresolved
issues. For that reason, Chitina requests an extension of
the current agreement for another year, during which time
all of the issues could be addressed.
RUTH ANN WARDEN, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), SPECIAL
PROJECT COORDINATOR, AHTNA NATIVE CORPORATION, GLENNALLEN,
voiced concern with removing the fee. The remedy for
mitigating the issues has not been determined. There is a
long list of problems and issues as referenced by Mr. Hart.
Ms. Warden emphasized that trespassing on the property is a
"huge" concern. That is true especially in the areas where
the people are recreating, fishing and hunting. The current
plan does work. The plan allows Chitina, the Indian
corporation and the State of Alaska to work together to
address some of these issues. It provides access for those
people through the private lands without ramifications.
Ms. Warden stressed that it would not be a good solution to
remove the fees and attempt to address all these issues in a
short period of time. A year extension would be desirable
to work out these concerns.
Co-Chair Williams pointed out that a similar issue exists in
Ketchikan. He commented on map distributed by Senator
Lincoln, indicating that a snow slide that washed out the
road system. Land in Saxman has experienced these same
types of problems. Placement of signs did not work so the
Native Corporation began working with the public and
building up the facilities for the public to use. That is
paying off for his area and asked if that could be done in
Chitina, charging and then policing. The State can no
longer be collecting fees and policing those areas for the
dip net fishery. He inquired if it would be possible to
build a road to the waters edge to help control the flow of
people.
Mr. Hart responded that they had tried to control the flow
using a gated area, which required someone to be on guard
24-hours a day. The public did not like that access and
complained to the Department of Transportation & Public
Facilities and the Department of Fish and Game. That entire
concern was placed into litigation. He reminded members
that there are 8,000 to 10,000 dip netters in comparison to
the 500 people encouraging passage of the legislation. He
surmised that there could be a program built but that it
would be impossible to implement that this year.
SENATOR GEORGIANNA LINCOLN highlighted the map distributed
to the Committee members.
TAPE HFC 03 - 83, Side B
Senator Lincoln pointed out the O'Brien Creek area. She
noted how each area would be affected by the trespassing,
pointing out that the best fishing is at some of the bluffs.
Bluffs do not stop fishermen. The trails are narrow and
there are private lands intermingled with State lands and
that many people come armed, which can lead to dangerous
situations. There are no Village Public Safety Officers
(VPSO) on duty. Senator Lincoln voiced appreciation that
the sponsor had attempted to work out a situation, however,
the gates are to be opened on June 9th. There needs to be a
way to work with Chitina to accommodate them during this
period. There is no way that they can get the fences up
this year. She noted that the fishery ends the end of
September.
Mr. Hart advised that the majority of the people start
showing up around the 4th of July weekend. Senator Lincoln
reiterated that this is a volatile situation. She
recommended calling the fee a "user fee or costs related to
the impacts on the community". She implored the Committee
members help to get the village through this season and then
they could work something out for next year.
REPRESENTATIVE CARL MORGAN spoke to concerns with the other
side of the river and how the private lands are affected.
Co-Chair Williams interjected that the only way to manage
the problem would be in working with the public to address
these problems. He recommended hiring someone to police the
areas, pointing out that the bill goes into effect on July
1. Representative Coghill corrected that the bill has an
immediate effective date.
Senator Lincoln reiterated that the areas do not have the
time to prepare a plan and that hiring only one person would
not be effective. Representative Coghill advised that last
year, the opponents had prepared the same argument. He
stressed that they currently are charging a trespass fee for
public lands. He reiterated that this is not a new
discussion. He acknowledged that there are safety hazards
associated with the river and that the State knows where the
borders of the State lands and private lands are and that
the borders are now clearly delineated.
Senator Lincoln acknowledged that the village areas need to
work on these concerns. The Department of Fish & Game has
admitted that they do not have a resolution with Chitina.
She maintained that there is no other place in the State of
Alaska where there is such an influx of fishers going
through such a narrow area. She foresaw problems if these
issues are not equitably resolved.
Co-Chair Harris asked whether the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities still plans to pay the
Chitina Native Corporation for any damages done to property
as a result of the trespassing even without the fee.
Representative Lincoln replied that had not been confirmed
in writing. She speculated that the Department would not
reopen the slide at Brian Creek, which would make private
lands more congested with increased safety concerns.
Co-Chair Harris inquired if there was any other place in the
State where a fee was charged for access.
KELLY HEPLER, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF SPORT FISH, DEPARTMENT
OF FISH AND GAME, explained that this is a unique situation.
Co-Chair Harris asked if there was enough opportunity for
people to cross on public land to avoid the private lands.
Mr. Hepler replied that approximately 60% of the land from
Chitina down to the southern access was accessible. One of
the primary spots is around Brian Creek. Regarding the
right-of-way, many people access the areas with their boats,
however, there continues to be a lot of tension. He
concurred with the suggestion that the Native corporations
create a parking area.
Co-Chair Harris stated that he did not want to see the
private property owners have their rights abused. He added
that he would like to see money placed in the State's budget
to compensate for the concern. He asked about the fiscal
note. Mr. Hepler replied that some funds go for publishing
the permit and bathroom facility use. In response to a
question by Co-Chair Harris, Mr. Hepler explained that $18 -
$25 dollars goes to Chitina and the other funds for
contractual work.
Co-Chair Harris asked whether the Department of Fish and
Game would continue to pay for waste management if the fee
was discontinued. Mr. Hepler responded that was a decision
for the Department of Administration, noting that he would
not like to lose the $180 thousand dollars from his budget
for that purpose. Co-Chair Harris commented that he would
look toward the Capital Budget to locate funding for Chitina
to help resolve these issues.
Representative Stoltze asked for clarification regarding the
charge on the Kenai River. Mr. Hepler explained that would
be a charge for parking. Representative Stoltze asked the
Department's position on that fee. Mr. Hepler commented
that the issue was complex and that the Department has not
yet taken a position.
Representative Chenault asked if there were any fees
collected or paid in Kenai for dip netting fishing. Mr.
Hepler responded that in the past, monies had been spent for
trash receptacles. He added that the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities spent time in trash
disposal, noting that with the large number of people
involved, they were not able to provide the necessary level
of service.
Representative Chenault raised the concern that there is an
inequity of provided services and that cities incur costs
due to the location of those fishing areas, whether in
Chitina or in Kenai. He proposed that the cost should be
State related rather than a city expense. Representative
Chenault cited his experience while representing the Kenai
borough area.
Co-Chair Harris asked if the city of Kenai spent money to
alleviate a garbage problem that they believed should have
been a State responsibility. Representative Chenault
acknowledged the problem with the State designating the
fishing area and then taking little responsibility for waste
management, parking or habitat concerns. He pointed out
that a charge for parking had helped offset some costs in
his area.
Senator Lincoln thanked the Committee for debating the issue
at such length and for giving thought to the people affected
by the bill.
Co-Chair Harris MOVED to report CS HB 210 (RES) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal note.
Representative Foster OBJECTED.
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Hawker, Stolze, Whitaker, Chenault, Harris,
Williams
OPPOSED: Foster, Meyer, Moses
Representative Croft and Representative Joule were not
present for the vote.
The MOTION PASSED (6-3).
CS HB 210 (RES) was reported out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with a new fiscal note by the
Department of Fish & Game and a zero note #1 by the
Department of Natural Resources.
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