Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124
04/13/2017 08:00 AM House COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB201 | |
| SB64 | |
| SB63 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | SB 63 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 64 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 201 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 201-MUNICIPAL REGULATION OF TRAPPING
8:03:12 AM
CO-CHAIR PARISH announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 201, "An Act relating to municipal regulation
of trapping; and providing for an effective date."
8:03:40 AM
CO-CHAIR FANSLER moved to adopt Amendment 1 to HB 201, labeled
30-LS0628\A.4, Bullard, 4/12/17, which read as follows:
Page 2, following line 13:
Insert a new subsection to read:
"(d) A municipality may not enact an ordinance
under this section that eliminates reasonable
opportunities for subsistence trapping of game within
its boundaries."
Reletter the following subsection accordingly.
8:05:06 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO objected for discussion purposes, then
removed his objection.
8:05:24 AM
CO-CHAIR PARISH announced that there being no further objection,
Amendment 1 was adopted.
8:05:30 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO offered his understanding that
Representative Saddler had requested some amendments but was not
present to offer them; therefore, he said he would offer the
amendments on Representative Saddler's behalf.
8:05:47 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO moved to adopt Amendment 2 to HB 201,
labeled 30-LS0628\A.1, Bullard, 4/11/17, which read as follows:
Page 1, line 10, following "protect":
Insert "human"
CO-CHAIR FANSLER objected.
8:06:10 AM
The committee took a brief at-ease at 8:06 a.m.
8:06:49 AM
CO-CHAIR PARISH called the meeting back to order to explain the
reason for the at-ease and to outline the agenda going forward.
8:07:30 AM
The committee took an at-ease from 8:08 a.m. to 8:10 a.m.
8:10:44 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO pointed out that if Amendment 2 was
adopted, then the sentence it amends would read as follows: "A
municipality may regulate trapping to protect human life and
property within its boundaries and may exempt trappers from
municipal regulation for good cause."
8:11:32 AM
CO-CHAIR FANSLER requested feedback from the bill sponsor as to
whether Amendment 2 is necessary.
8:11:44 AM
REPRESENTATIVE ANDY JOSEPHSON, Alaska State Legislature, as
prime sponsor of HB 201, said Amendment 2 is redundant, because
"in that sentence, what's described is clearly not to regulate
trapping to protect wild animals, because that's not necessarily
the purpose of this ordinance at all." He said he is not sure
what Amendment 2 would add. Further, he said because there is
not a comma following "life", the sentence could be interpreted
to mean protection of human life and human property, and since
"property" is "sort of a human term," he does not know what
other kind of property there is.
8:12:40 AM
MEGAN ROWE, Staff, Representative Andy Josephson, Alaska State
Legislature, on behalf of Representative Josephson, prime
sponsor of HB 201, said the term "life" implies human life. She
said she thinks the purpose of Amendment 2 is to clarify that
"life" means "human life", so a municipality cannot argue it is
trying to protect animal life. She suggested "human" could be
added in multiple places. For example, adding it preceding
"properties" would clarify that the protection is not intended
for beaver dams, for example. Nevertheless, she added that she
did not think Amendment 2 would have "a huge effect."
8:13:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO offered his understanding that "the
intent of the sponsor [of Amendment 2] ... was to differentiate
... between wild animals and domestic animals." He said
domestic animals could be considered the property of someone,
whereas wild animals would be considered "community property of
all the residents of the state of Alaska."
8:14:53 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE asked if there is anything wrong with
being redundant.
8:15:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON answered no, but opined that the
reading is "sort of clunky and a little awkward."
Notwithstanding that, he said he took Representative Westlake's
point and is "indifferent about it."
8:15:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND directed attention to the phrase "damage
to persons or property" on page 2, line 2, and said she doesn't
know why "this needs to be different." She noted that "persons
or property" appears in several places on page 2. She said she
does not think Amendment 2 is necessary.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND [moved to adopt] an amendment to
Amendment 2, to [delete] "human" from Amendment 2 and change the
word "life" to "persons".
8:16:24 AM
CO-CHAIR FANSLER asked for the sponsor's feedback regarding the
proposed amendment to Amendment 2.
8:16:51 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON told Representative Drummond that if
Mr. Bullard was available to comment, he would like to hear his
opinion. He stated, "I think it's a very fine idea."
CO-CHAIR PARISH noted Mr. Bullard was not on line, but listed
others who were available for comment, including Cheryl Brooking
from the Department of Law. He questioned whether the addition
of "human", as proposed under Amendment 2, would make a
substantive difference.
8:17:19 AM
CHERYL BROOKING, Assistant Attorney General, Natural Resources
Section, Civil Division (Anchorage), Department of Law (DOL), in
response to Co-Chair Parish, said the phrase "in defense of life
and property" has been established for quite some time, and she
suggested that a representative of the Department of Public
Safety could address how that is enforced.
8:18:31 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND, in response to Co-Chair Parish, said
she maintained her motion to adopt the amendment to Amendment 2.
8:18:37 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO expressed support for the proposed
amendment to Amendment 2.
8:19:02 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND, in response to Co-Chair Parish, offered
that the amendment to Amendment 2 would delete "life" and insert
"persons", on page 1, line 10.
8:19:22 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER objected to the amendment to Amendment 2
for discussion purposes. He asked for confirmation regarding
what the amendment proposed by Representative Drummond would
amend.
CO-CHAIR PARISH clarified that the discussion pertained to the
amendment to Amendment 2.
8:19:46 AM
MS. ROWE offered her understanding that [Representative
Drummond] had offered an amendment to HB 201 and not to
Amendment 2.
CO-CHAIR PARISH indicated that is a fair assessment.
8:20:06 AM
REPRESENTAIVE RAUSCHER stated, "Then I remove my objection."
CO-CHAIR PARISH offered his understanding that the amendment
offered by Representative Drummond would replace [Amendment 2].
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO requested the committee take an at-ease.
8:20:27 AM
The committee took an at-ease from 8:20 a.m. to 8:22 a.m.
[Although the recording clock was not stopped during this time,
the audio was turned off for the duration of the at-ease.]
8:22:39 AM
CO-CHAIR PARISH explained that under the amendment to Amendment
2, on page 1, line 10, [the word "human" proposed under
Amendment 2 would be deleted, and the word "life" would be
replaced by the word "persons".] As such, he clarified that the
resulting language would read:
A municipality may regulate trapping to protect
persons and property within its boundaries
[The amendment to Amendment 2 was treated as adopted.]
8:23:49 AM
CO-CHAIR PARISH asked Representative Rauscher if he maintained
his "objection to the amendment as amended."
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER, after receiving further clarification
about the intent of the amendment to Amendment 2, said, "All
right, I remove my objection."
8:24:37 AM
CO-CHAIR FANSLER maintained his objected to Amendment 2, [as
amended], to hear from the bill sponsor.
8:24:53 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON said he does not know "whether we now
lose a line of cases in statutes that use the term 'life and
property'," but he said people are familiar with the term
"defense of life and property". He indicated that the change
will read more consistently on both pages of the bill. He said
he thinks the change is probably okay, but suggested hearing
again from Ms. Brooking may be helpful.
8:25:38 AM
CO-CHAIR PARISH asked if legal standing would be lost as a
result of Amendment 2, as amended.
MS. BROOKING answered that she thinks the language is similar
and "the record you are developing would help certainly in
determining the intent of what this statute would ultimately
mean"; however, she does not know if the change would have a
significant impact on how the law is interpreted.
8:26:56 AM
CO-CHAIR FANSLER withdrew his objection to Amendment 2, as
amended. There being no further objection, it was so ordered.
8:27:11 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO moved to adopt Amendment 3 to HB 201,
labeled 30-LS0628\A.2, Bullard, 4/11/17, which read as follows:
Page 1, line 11:
Delete "regulation"
Insert "trapping ordinances"
CO-CHAIR PARISH objected for discussion purposes.
CO-CHAIR FANSLER objected.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO said since [HB 201] pertains
specifically to the regulation of trapping, he thinks exempting
trappers from municipal regulation, rather than just the
trapping ordinances that are adopted by local municipalities,
seems broad. He stated his assumption that "we wouldn't have
trappers come in and say, 'Well, I'm a trapper and I'd like to
be exempted from the borough's property tax' or ... some other
stipulation that might be within a municipality."
8:28:55 AM
CO-CHAIR FANSLER requested feedback from the bill sponsor.
8:29:07 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON opined that the language, as is, is
stylistically better. He pointed out that the language follows
the heading of "Regulation of trapping"; therefore, it is clear
that the subject is trapping. He indicated that he does not
have a problem with Amendment 3, but finds it to be "a little
bit clunky."
CO-CHAIR FANSLER said he would like to hear from Ms. Brooking.
8:30:06 AM
MS. BROOKING stated that the change proposed under Amendment 3,
from "regulation" to "trapping ordinances", would be more
accurate. She explained that when a municipal government adopts
a rule of law, it is an ordinance. The code of municipalities
is considered a code of ordinances.
CO-CHAIR FANSLER asked to hear a response from the bill sponsor.
8:30:35 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON said, "It's almost like asking which
form of poetry is your favorite." He said he respectfully does
not really agree with Ms. Brooking. He said local governments
will understand the term "to regulate."
8:31:30 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND said under Amendment 3, the Municipality
of Anchorage would have to have a set of trapping ordinances,
which she said she does not think it would do. She surmised
that the municipality would defer to what the state's trapping
regulations already are. She concluded, "What we're talking
about here is ... making municipal ordinances that cause the
interpretation of state trapping regulations to be applied
differently within this municipality. I don't think this
amendment is necessary, and I would not support it."
8:32:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said he appreciates the comments of
[Representative Drummond], but he said he thinks "municipal
regulation" is a broad term. Further, he said, "I think once
this is adopted, the only way a municipality will be able to
regulate this is through ordinances that they will have to
write." He expressed support for Amendment 3.
8:34:10 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE said the issue is local control. He
said the intent should not be to pass on the cost to boroughs to
enforce state regulation. He encouraged writing ordinances at
the local level, and he expressed support of [Amendment 3].
8:35:05 AM
CO-CHAIR FANSLER removed his objection to the motion to adopt
Amendment 3.
8:35:26 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND maintained her objection to Amendment 3.
8:35:34 AM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Westlake, Talerico,
Rauscher, and Fansler voted in favor of the motion to adopt
Amendment 3. Representatives Drummond and Parish voted against
it. Therefore, Amendment 3 was adopted by a vote of 4-2.
8:36:14 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO moved to adopt Amendment 4 to HB 201,
labeled 30-LS0628\A.3, Bullard, 4/11/17, which read as follows:
Page 2, lines 4 - 5:
Delete "persons, property, or nontargeted
species"
Insert "persons or property"
8:36:29 AM
The committee took an at-ease from 8:36 a.m. to 8:37 a.m.
8:37:42 AM
CO-CHAIR FANSLER objected to the motion to adopt Amendment 4.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO spoke to Amendment 4. He related that
someone he knows, who has much experience related to the issue,
told him that although there may be a targeted species along a
trapline, occasionally there may be another species that is
caught in a trap, which Representative Talerico explained is the
reason for proposing the removal of the language "nontargeted
species".
8:39:15 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON stated that he does not oppose
Amendment 4.
8:39:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE FANSLER removed his objection to the motion to
adopt Amendment 4.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER objected for discussion purposes. He
noted that during a prior bill hearing, the committee had heard
that [the inclusion of the language] "nontargeted species" was
problematic. He expressed support for Amendment 4.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER removed his objection to Amendment 4.
There being no further objection, Amendment 4 was adopted.
8:40:35 AM
CO-CHAIR FANSLER moved to report HB 201, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes.
8:41:00 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO objected for discussion purposes. He
shared that he gets "squishy" whenever the legislature makes
changes that affect Title 29, because it involves municipal
government, and occasionally the legislature has made what it
considers to be insignificant changes within Title 29, but those
changes have greatly affected municipalities. He said
municipalities have requirements on how they adopt powers and
make ordinances, and the changes from the legislature almost
come across as unfunded mandates. He said he gets nervous when
changes are made to Title 29, without significant input from
local governments.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO removed his objection.
8:42:12 AM
CO-CHAIR PARISH, for discussion purposes, objected to the motion
to report HB 201, as amended, out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
8:42:20 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE asked, "Now that we've moved it over to
ordinances rather than regulations here, does that free you from
that trap of fiscal responsibility?"
8:42:35 AM
MS. ROWE answered that the terms "regulation" and "ordinance"
are interchangeable. Regulation means "general regulation of
... people within the municipality."
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE clarified that he would like to know if
the legislature would be passing an unfunded mandate.
MS. ROWE answered no, because the proposed legislation would
give discretionary ability to municipalities to regulate.
8:43:16 AM
CO-CHAIR PARISH noted that there were still experts available to
answer questions. In response to Representative Rauscher, he
confirmed that public testimony had been taken at the prior
hearing of HB 201 and, upon ascertaining that there was no one
currently who wished to testify, he announced that public
testimony would remained closed.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER expressed concern regarding the
[unintended consequences of making changes to] Title 29.
8:44:31 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND stated that the House Community and
Regional Affairs Standing Committee is charged with making laws
that allow municipalities to operate more efficiently and in the
best interest of their citizens. She remarked that the
Municipality of Anchorage has 41 percent of the state's
population in three-tenths of one percent of the state's square
miles. She commented on the close quarters in Anchorage and
said tempers get frayed. She stated her belief that the
Municipality of Anchorage needs the flexibility to make
ordinances that protect its citizens. She said [the proposed
legislation] would not require any municipality to impact Title
29, and she said she trusts each municipality will go through
their public processes with their elected officials. She stated
that she does not want to fail to pass this law and then have
some child severely injured because of a negligent trapper. She
stated, "We are never going to stop people who have no common
sense, but we really do need to give our municipalities the
tools to put the laws in place that will protect their people
and their pets. Those are important things to people." She
stated support of HB 201, [as amended].
8:46:34 AM
CO-CHAIR FANSLER said he would like to hear from Hazel Nelson to
find out whether "the subsistence modification that we placed
through" allay "some of the fears that she might have presented
on Tuesday."
8:47:05 AM
HAZEL NELSON, Director, Division of Subsistence, Alaska
Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), said she appreciates the
additional language that has been inserted. She offered her
understanding that "the amendment that was included this morning
is intended to reflect current state law that is similar to
what's found in [AS] 16.05.258, that reasonable opportunity
would mean the same as it does in current statute."
CO-CHAIR FANSLER said it makes him happy to know that Ms. Nelson
does not still have cause for concern. He commented on the
coexistence of trapping and trail use in rural areas, and he
emphasized how important he thinks subsistence is. He said he
thinks local communities can make the determinations [about
issues that affect them] better than can be made at the state
level. He expressed support of HB 201, [as amended].
8:49:18 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO expressed concern that under HB 201, as
amended, there may be a scenario that as proposals come to
ADF&G, the department might say, "That's up to the
municipality". He said if the department does that, it would
not only remove the science and data of the department, but
would also make the municipality responsible for enforcement.
He added, "But municipalities can make that decision."
CO-CHAIR PARISH commented that five out of the six members
currently present on the House Community and Regional Affairs
Standing Committee would be vetting the bill again as members of
the House Resources Standing Committee.
8:50:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON offered his understanding that the
Board of Game tries to mirror its proposals with municipal
ordinance.
8:50:57 AM
CO-CHAIR PARISH removed his objection to the motion to report HB
201, as amended, out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being
no further objection, CSHB 201(CRA) was reported out of the
House Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| CSSB063 Sectional Analysis Ver. N 3.29.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Explanation of Changes Ver. U to Ver. N 3.29.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Resolutions of Support 3.29.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Ver. N 3.29.2017.PDF |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Fiscal Note DCCED-AMCO 4.6.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Fiscal Note DEC-FSS 4.6.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Fiscal Note DOT-COM 4.6.2017.PDF |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Sponsor Statement 3.29.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 DPS-DET 4.6.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Fiscal Note DHSS-CDPHP 4.6.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Resolutions of Support 3.29.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Support Document - Evidence on Secondhand Smoke 3.29.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Support Letters 3.29.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Support Document - Dittman Survey 3.29.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 email opposing, amend.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| SB 63 Maniilaq 17-06 Supporting a Smokefree Alaska.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| SB 63 Electronic_Nicotine_Delivery_Systems_Key_Facts_Infographic_CDC.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| SB 63 ecigarette-secondhand-aerosol.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| SB 63 E-cigarette nicotine labels not always accurate -- ScienceDaily.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| SB 63 ASHRAE_PD_Environmental_Tobacco_Smoke_2013.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| SB 63 - States Map Smoke-Free.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| CSSB063 Resolutions of Support UPDATE 4.11.2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| SB 63 Addnl Support 4-12-2017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |
| SB064 DoD 4-6-2017Addnl Comments UECA Bill.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 64 |
| SB064 DEC response to DoD 4-6-2017 Addnl Comments.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 64 |
| SB 63 email opposing 03302017.pdf |
HCRA 4/13/2017 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/18/2017 8:00:00 AM |
SB 63 |