Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/14/2000 06:22 PM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
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SENATE COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE FOR COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE
FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 191(HES)
"An Act relating to charter schools."
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON recounted legislation passed in
1995 that established Alaska's first charter school
statutes. He told of a wide movement across the country to
allow parents to participate in creating a school that fits
their needs.
Representative Dyson relayed conversations he had with
Representative Bettye Davis shortly after he was first
elected in which he was told he needed to revisit the
charter school statutes. Representative Davis asserted to
him that the existing statutes would not work. He added
that national experts on the subject have stated that
Alaska's laws are amongst the weakest in the nation.
Representative Dyson stressed that the charter schools in
the state are struggling and that his office along with the
Anchorage School District have been working with charter
schools to craft legislation to allow charter schools to
survive an possibly to prosper.
Representative Dyson highlighted some minor points of the
bill that he said everyone could agree on. These, he said
include provisions to double the number of charter schools
allowed to operate and the elimination of the geographical
distribution of the school's locations. He added the bill
also extends the sunset provision of the exiting statute
and allows occupation of public buildings by charter
schools.
Representative Dyson then shared that the most substantial
portion of the legislation addresses funding. Most charter
schools elsewhere in the country, he said are provided
start-up funds, which he said Alaska does not provide. He
did note that the Fairbanks school district has made
attempts to secure funding for a charter school located in
that community.
Representative Dyson next talked about changes made to the
bill in the committee process in attempt to meet criticisms
of the Anchorage and Fairbanks school districts. He stated
that the Senate Health, Education and Social Services
Committee deleted two paragraphs of the original bill
addressing financial requirements plus another provision
stipulating that charter schools receive a share of the
local contribution as well as state funding.
Representative Dyson allowed that the resulting committee
substitute addresses the necessary technical changes but
does not provide additional funding for charter schools.
Representative Dyson spoke of the accounting procedures
necessary to show how the charter school's funding is
expended.
Representative Dyson cautioned that Alaska's charter
schools would not survive without much more help. He
expressed, "I think it's cruel to string them along." He
stated that the current version of the bill gives the
schools no hope since it no longer contains the funding
provisions.
GAIL MCCANN testified via teleconference from Fairbanks
asking the sponsor to not give up on charter schools. She
wanted all public schools to secure more funding as the
University of Alaska has in recent years.
KITTY MATHERS testified via teleconference from Fairbanks
to request the Committee vote in favor of the original
version of the bill. She stressed that the current
committee substitute allows the charter schools to exist,
but not to survive.
JOHN TIEMESSEN, attorney and father of charter school
student, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks about
the need for work on the charter school structure and to
fully fund schools.
MISSY LIEBERMAN, parent of a child in Chinook Charter
School testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in
support of the bill and the idea behind it to help charter
schools get equal funding and not have to compete with
other schools.
BARBARA GERARD testified via teleconference from Mat-Su
about a recent evaluation showing the positive impacts of
charter schools. She stated that this bill strengthens the
charter school process.
JIM POSEY testified via teleconference from Anchorage about
the growth of the local charter school. He expressed the
reduced assistance provided in the committee substitute
"puts an dagger into the hearts" of those who work for
public education.
ANTHONY HUSSY, Chair, Academic Policy Council, Walden Pond
Charter School testified via teleconference from Anchorage
about the school and some of the special needs of their
students.
MARY CARTER, mother and board member of Walden Pond Charter
School, testified via teleconference from Anchorage about
the growth she has seen in her daughter since attending
this school.
LORNA REECE, parent of student of Walden Pond Charter
School, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. She
spoke of her experiences in Anchorage schools and why she
chose to send her son to a charter school.
MIKE FISHER, Assistant Superintendent, Fairbanks North Star
School District, testified via teleconference from
Fairbanks about his concerns with Section 2 of the bill in
subparagraph 5, requiring itemization of administrative
costs, and subparagraph 14, stipulating that the charter
school budget must be increased to reflect operating cost
savings.
KATHY GELLISPY, Legislative Co-Chair, Anchorage School
Board testified in Juneau that the district could not
support the bill. She suggested changing the provision
dictating accounting methods for charter school related
expenditures.
Ms. Gellispy also requested deletion of subparagraph 14
from page 2, lines 27-31 of the committee substitute. She
argued that no school receives funding for services that
are not provided.
Ms. Gellispy went into great detail of the various
expenditures incurred by both charter schools and regular
schools and the hardship the district would incur if the
accounting and funding requirements of this legislation
were imposed.
Tape: SFC - 00 #90, Side A 7:56 PM
Ms. Gellispy offered that the Anchorage School District
wants to work with the legislature to make the charter
school statutes stronger than they currently are.
Ms. Gellispy detailed the handout accompanying the
district's April 14, 2000 memo to the Senate Finance
Committee. [Copy on file] She explained how this list shows
the budgeted cost per student for each of the district's
schools. She pointed out that the average spent per charter
school student is $4,264 compared to the average of $3,732
spent for all other elementary students. She attested that
the district is funding its charter schools in a fair and
equitable manner.
CARL ROSE, Executive Director, Association of Alaska School
Boards, testified in Juneau saying the organization is on
record in support of charter schools. He said the
difficulty with this legislation is the inability to come
to agreement on the appropriation. He surmised that by
attaching charter schools to an already struggling system
is not the way to ensure success for charter schools. He
cautioned of the potential for charter schools to operate
without any oversight of the local school boards, and thus
being funded without requiring any accountability. He
thought the possibility existed that some new charter
schools would not get approval because of these funding
issues. He suggested the legislature adequately fund all
schools.
Amendment #1: This amendment adds a new bill section on
page 3, following line 7 of the committee substitute to
read as follows.
"Sec. 4. AS 14.03.260 is amended by adding a new
subsection to read:
(e) In addition to the amount provided to an
approved charter school in the annual program budget
under (a) of this section, a charter school budget
must include an allocation equal to the amount
determined by dividing the amount of local revenues
contributed under AS 14.17.410(c) by the average daily
membership of the district and multiplying that number
by the average daily membership of the charter
school."
Co-Chair Parnell moved for adoption. Senator Wilken
objected.
Co-Chair Parnell explained this amendment requires the
local school districts to share excess local contributions
with the charter schools. He asserted that parents of
charter school students pay property taxes that are used to
fund all public schools except their child's. He said that
this is an issue of equity.
Representative Dyson agreed with Co-Chair Parnell's
statements.
Co-Chair Parnell stated that all public schools should be
funded.
Senator Phillips referred to the Anchorage School
District's list of budgeted funds spent per student of
various schools in the district. He noted how more funds
are spent for charter school students.
Co-Chair Parnell responded that three of the listed charter
schools included special needs students. Secondly, he said
the issue was not about the amount of money spent per
student, which is a red herring. Instead he asserted the
issue is about getting equitable funding at the on-set with
the ability for the school board to make adjustments later.
Senator Phillips thought all of the schools include the
special needs expenditures in their budgets.
[Ms. Gellispy affirmed, but out of range of the recording
system.]
Senator Green noted there may well be a comparability in
the amount allotted to the per student calculation. She
wanted to know if there is a difference in the expenditure
allotted to the charter schools.
Representative Dyson replied that several of those schools
have to pay the costs to occupy a facility, whereas other
schools don't have to pay rent.
Senator Wilken stated that in 1995, the funding for charter
schools was clearly set forth. He quoted, "the amount
generated by students enrolled in charter schools to be
determined in the same manner as would be for a student
enrolled in another public school in that school district."
He stressed this agreement was reached with the intent that
it would be adhered to for ten years.
Senator Wilken noted the amount of money the Anchorage
School District spends for charter school students. He
thought the matter of paying leasing costs for charter
schools is already addressed the organization and operation
of a charter school chapter of state statute.
Senator Wilken understood that the charter school laws were
to allow parents to organize to provide an educational
opportunity that they could not receive in a normal public
school in that district. He stressed that these parents can
negotiate a contract to define their school, which includes
the facility the school will occupy. He added that while
the charter school may have to address disabilities, there
is no library, no band, no athletic program, transportation
requirements, and are not required to have open enrollment,
as a public school must.
Senator Wilken attested that although charter schools have
approached the Fairbanks and Anchorage school districts
with complaints that they don't receive enough money, they
are getting more money than required in the 1995
legislation.
Senator Wilken stressed that this amendment, along with
other proposed changes, "cements in place a 'must do' and a
confrontation between the charter school proponents and the
school board every budget season." He stated that the
message this legislation sends to the school districts is
that they don't know what they are doing and regardless of
the needs of most students, the district must spend a
specific amount on charter school students.
Senator Phillips asked about the location of the Walden
Pond Charter School in the Diamond Mall and other charter
schools' lease agreements.
PEGGY ROBINSON, President, Anchorage School Board, talked
about the charter school's five year lease. It was
established that Walden Pond is the only charter school
that pays rent. The others pay some combination of
utilities.
A roll call was taken on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Senator Donley, Senator Leman, Senator Green, Co-
Chair Parnell and Co-Chair Torgerson
OPPOSED: Senator Adams, Senator Wilken and Senator Phillips
ABSENT: Senator P. Kelly
The motion PASSED (5-3-1)
The amendment was ADOPTED.
Amendment #2: This amendment makes the following changes to
page 2, lines 10 through 13 of the committee substitute as
follows.
Delete
"(5) a statement of the charter school's
funding allocation from the local school board,
including the itemized costs of administrative or
other services to be provided [AND COSTS ASSIGNABLE]
to the charter school [PROGRAM BUDGET];"
Insert
"(5) a statement of the charter school's
funding allocation from the local school board and
costs assignable to the charter school program
budget."
New text underlined [DELETED TEXT BRACKETED]
Senator Wilken moved for adoption. Senator Green objected.
Senator Wilken noted this amendment is connected to
Amendment #3. He expressed that it would be difficult and
expensive for school districts to account for these
expenditures as required in the legislation. He thought
that to require a separate accounting system for under 200
students to keep track of itemized costs was unreasonable.
He pointed out, for example, that the charter schools in
Fairbanks uses the district's discipline system but the
district does not charge the charter school for that
service. He suspected there would be great difficulty in
trying to establish an accounting method to itemize that
particular service in addition to the multiple other
similar services that are interrelated between the district
and the charter schools.
Representative Dyson had no objection to the amendment
since he thought the premise of the language would not
change. He stated that the belief that the bill would
require establishment of a separate accounting system was
"either grossly misunderstood or a red herring." He noted
that the district would still be responsible for showing an
accounting of all expenditures.
Co-Chair Torgerson thought the word "itemize" was the
difficulty.
The amendment was ADOPTED without objection.
Amendment #3: This amendment deletes subparagraph (14) on
page 2, line 27, through page 3, line 1 of the committee
substitute.
"a clause providing that the charter
school's budget shall be increased to reflect
operating cost savings achieved by the charter school;
in this paragraph, "operating cost savings" means the
estimated value of educational or related services
provided by the district to all schools in the
district that are not provided to the charter school;
(15)"
Senator Wilken moved for adoption. Co-Chair Torgerson
objected for an explanation.
Senator Wilken stressed that this language was a troubling
inclusion in the bill. He predicted this would foster
tensions each year between the charter schools and the
school board. He suggested that this is giving credit for
not doing something, which he remarked, is backward
thinking.
Co-Chair Torgerson removed his objection.
Representative Dyson emphasized that this language is also
misunderstood. He stressed that there would be no
negotiations involved in this process. The school board is
an advisory seat and the charter school can make no threats
but must do what the board instructs. He shared that if a
charter school can ease expenditures for the other schools,
for example, by removing students from an over-crowded high
school, the district can share a portion of the net savings
with the charter school. He restated that if a district
identifies savings as a result of the existence of a
charter school, the savings could be passed along to the
charter school.
Senator Leman said Representative Dyson's comments make
sense if the intent is interpreted to pass along some, but
not all of the net savings.
Representative Dyson responded that "the school district is
in the driver's seat" and could pass along all, none, or a
portion, of the savings to the charter school.
Co-Chair Torgerson noted the language "shall be increased"
is not optional.
Senator Leman countered that the language does not
stipulate what factor of the savings. He thought the
language was poorly worded but that some of the money
should be passed along to encourage further savings. He
stressed that the legislature needs to provide a better
incentive to quell the formula funding cost increases.
Representative Dyson offered to change "shall" to "may".
Senator Wilken commented that Amendment #1 set the baseline
and this subparagraph increases that base by considering
whether the charter school has a band, library and/or a
transportation system.
Senator Green noted Representative Dyson's example did
happen in the Mat-Su school district. She shared that the
district's charter school does have a band and has a
variety of students, but has also eased overcrowding in the
other schools. She noted that most charter schools are
filling a need, have a big waiting list and should be
supported.
Senator Green supported extending the sunset date of the
existing charter school statute at the very least.
Senator Wilken moved to withdraw his motion to adopt
Amendment #3.
The amendment was WITHDRAWN without objection.
Amendment #4: This amendment deletes "shall" and inserts
"may" on page 2, line 27, of the committee substitute. The
amended language reads as follows.
(14) a clause providing that the charter
school's budget may be increased to reflect operating
cost savings achieved by the charter school; in this
paragraph, "operating cost savings" means the
estimated value of educational or related services
provided by the district to all schools in the
district that are not provided to the charter school;
Co-Chair Parnell moved for adoption.
There was no objection and the amendment was ADOPTED.
Senator Wilken commented that this is an important issue
and that while he supports charter schools, he does not
want their interest to be championed at the expense of the
other 129,000 students in the public K-12 education system.
He stressed that the original legislation was an experiment
but that the agreement was to wait ten years to review its
success before making changes.
Co-Chair Torgerson asked if the sponsor had reviewed the
fiscal note.
Representative Dyson had.
Co-Chair Torgerson asked if the sponsor believed it takes
one to two people to run the program. He thought the
estimated cost of the legislation was too high.
Co-Chair Parnell offered a motion to move CS HB 191 (FIN)
as amended from Committee with accompanying $161,300 fiscal
note from the Department of Education and Early
Development.
The bill was MOVED from Committee.
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