Legislature(2023 - 2024)DAVIS 106
02/14/2024 06:00 PM House WAYS & MEANS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB190 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 190 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 190-ALASKA SUNSET COMMISSION
6:04:30 PM
CHAIR CARPENTER announced that the only order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 190, "An Act establishing a violation for
hindering the Alaska Sunset Commission; relating to the duties
of the legislature; establishing the Alaska Sunset Commission to
review and make recommendations on discontinuation of or changes
to state entities; relating to the powers and duties of the
Alaska Sunset Commission; and providing for an effective date."
CHAIR CARPENTER recapped the reasons behind proposing HB 190.
He said those reasons include: Alaska spends about twice as
much on state government as other states; time and information
are insufficient to utilize the annual budget process to ensure
efficient spending, effective service delivery, and continual
process improvement in state agencies; the requirements of the
Executive Budget Act are not always followed by the executive or
legislature in the budgeting process; data provided by the
executive departments is insufficient at times for program
evaluation, planning, and budgeting; and for the past 10 years,
the state auditor has produced performance review audits of
state agencies that sometimes weren't well used and that statute
has sunset.
CHAIR CARPENTER explained that HB 190 aims to provide useable
data through extensive third-party review by Alaskans and to
impose a recourse into the review process through the real risk
that a government entity might be eliminated by law as a forcing
function to get to an assessment. The bill would help ensure
adherence to performance requirements and process improvement in
the operation of Alaska's state government by establishing the
Alaska Sunset Commission under the lieutenant governor as an
independent and objective group charged with reviewing each
department by division in the state on a rotating schedule. The
commission's seven members would have staggered terms of five
years, with three of the members appointed by the governor, two
by the speaker of the house, and two by the president of the
senate. The commission would review the entities on a schedule
that includes adherence of financial and performance
requirements under the Executive Budget Act, utilization of
process improvement, efficiency of operations, and overlap with
other state agencies. The commission would submit a report to
the governor and the legislature within the first 10 days of
legislative session that includes a determination of whether
there is a public need for the continuation of the entity and to
make a recommendation to continue, discontinue, restructure, or
transfer duties and programs of the entity to another entity.
Along with its report, the commission would provide to the rules
committees any recommended statutory changes necessary to
accomplish its recommendations and request the introduction of
legislation. Should the legislature not act on the commission's
report, the entity subject of the report would be sunset at the
conclusion of the following fiscal year, providing motivation to
address the report.
6:09:00 PM
CHAIR CARPENTER entertained amendments to HB 190.
6:09:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE moved to adopt Amendment 1 to HB 190,
labeled 33-LS0685\B.4, Wallace, 1/30/24, which read:
Page 4, line 25:
Delete "each entity listed in"
Insert "principal departments and the University
of Alaska under"
Page 4, line 27:
Delete "listed in"
Insert "reviewed under"
Page 5, line 31, through page 6, line 20:
Delete all material and insert:
"Sec. 44.99.730. Review of state entities. (a)
The commission shall review at least one principal
department or the University of Alaska, and its
entities each year."
Page 6, line 21:
Delete "of each entity listed in"
Insert "under"
Page 6, line 23:
Delete "entity"
Insert "department or University of Alaska"
Page 6, lines 24 - 25:
Delete "entity for the purpose of advising or
otherwise assisting the entity"
Insert "department or university to advise or
assist the department or university"
Page 6, line 27:
Delete "listed in"
Insert "reviewed under"
Page 6, line 28:
Delete "listed in"
Insert "reviewed under"
Page 8, line 11:
Delete "listed in"
Insert "reviewed under"
REPRESENTATIVE GROH objected for the purpose of discussion.
CHAIR CARPENTER also objected for the purpose of discussion.
CHAIR CARPENTER explained Amendment 1 would amend Section 7 by
replacing the schedule of departments to be reviewed with a
requirement that the Alaska Sunset Commission review at least
one principal department or the University of Alaska each year
allowing for flexibility and prioritization of the departments
and overlap between large and small departments. The intent is
to allow the commission to review more than one per year if
there is the opportunity to do so.
6:10:20 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked whether the University of Alaska would
be viewed as one entity given that it is large.
CHAIR CARPENTER agreed that the University of Alaska is large.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked again whether the commission would
review the entire University of Alaska [as one entity].
6:11:04 PM
DONNA ARDUIN, Staff, Representative Ben Carpenter, Alaska State
Legislature, speaking on behalf of the sponsor of HB 190, the
House Special Committee on Ways and Means, on which
Representative Carpenter serves as chair, answered that the
schedule is one department or the University of Alaska each
year. Each one of the departments and the university is made up
of several entities. The word "entity" in the bill refers to
all the pieces, so the commission would review the entirety in
one year. For example, the Department of Commerce, Community,
and Economic Development has several entities, including
corporations, underneath it. Every division is an entity, every
corporation is an entity, and the commission will decide which
entities it wants to send legislation on.
CHAIR CARPENTER, responding to Representative Gray, offered his
belief that the accurate number of entities is 180.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY said he fears that the word "and" within the
amendment's language of "principal departments and the
University of Alaska under" could result in some entities and
the university being reviewed, and then some other entities and
the university being reviewed, such that the university would be
getting audited more frequently than the other 180 entities.
MS. ARDUIN clarified that the University of Alaska is listed
separately because it isn't a department. A department and its
divisions and sub-corporations, or the university and its
divisions, would be reviewed every year, so the university would
only come up in rotation once, just like every entity of that
department or the university. The commission would decide which
of them to send legislation on. Amendment 1 allows for
flexibility in that scheduling whereas the original bill said
which one would be done in which year and that it would have to
have one year.
6:13:59 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE offered his understanding that the
University of Alaska is being treated like all the others and
one of them will be audited [each] year in a rotation.
MS. ARDUIN nodded in the affirmative.
6:14:44 PM
CHAIR CARPENTER removed his objection to Amendment 1.
REPRESENTATIVE GROH removed his objection to Amendment 1. There
being no further objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.
6:14:59 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE moved to adopt Amendment 2 to HB 190,
labeled 33-LS0685\B.5, Wallace, 1/30/24, which read:
Page 1, line 3, following "entities;":
Insert "and"
Page 1, lines 4 - 5:
Delete "; and providing for an effective date"
Page 8, line 17, through page 8, line 20:
Delete all material.
[REPRESENTATIVE GRAY objected.]
CHAIR CARPENTER objected for the purpose of discussion.
CHAIR CARPENTER explained that because HB 190 would take effect
immediately, Amendment 2 would amend the title change to
eliminate the words "providing for an effective date". The
amendment would remove Section 8 that repeals the statutes
governing the disposition of entities under the Division of
Legislative Audit and laws that sunset in 2023 when the bill was
drafted. Amendment 2 would remove Section 9 which repeals
performance review state law 2013 that sunset on 7/1/23.
6:15:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY removed his objection to Amendment 2.
CHAIR CARPENTER removed his objection to Amendment 2. There
being no further objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.
6:16:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE moved to adopt Amendment 3 to HB 190,
labeled 33-LS0685\B.6, Wallace, 1/30/24, which read:
Page 7, line 18, following "hearings":
Insert "on the interconnected state road system"
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY objected.
CHAIR CARPENTER explained Amendment 3 would amend Section 7 by
requiring the Alaska Sunset Commission to hold its public
hearings on the interconnected [state] road system.
6:16:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GROH asked whether the amendment's intent is to
eliminate the possibility that hearings would occur off the road
system in locations such as Sitka, Ketchikan, Juneau, Cordova,
Nome, or Bethel.
CHAIR CARPENTER replied that if a location doesn't have a road,
then that would be the effect of Amendment 3.
6:17:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY expressed his fear that the committee might
be prejudiced toward Amendment 3 because all its members live on
the road system.
CHAIR CARPENTER responded that he doesn't think the bill as
drafted prohibits a meeting from being held off the road system.
MS. ARDUIN clarified that if Amendment 3 [is adopted] the bill
would then say that by September 1 of the year of the review for
an entity, the commission shall provide notice of and hold one
or more public hearings on the interconnected road system.
REPRESENTATIVE TILTON surmised that Amendment 3 comes forward
due to her comments at the bill's last hearing that there be a
hearing held somewhere on the road system so the public can
weigh in at the least cost where the greater number of
constituencies live.
6:18:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY removed his objection to Amendment 3. There
being no further objection, Amendment 3 was adopted.
6:18:50 PM
CHAIR CARPENTER stated that HB 190, as amended, was now before
the committee. He asked whether members have any questions or
comments.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked whether the report to the governor and
the legislature, in addition to the recommendation options of
continue, discontinue, restructure, or transfer duties to
another entity, could include instruction to a department to do
its job if the department isn't doing its job.
CHAIR CARPENTER answered yes, that's the intent of forming the
commission. The authority to recommend those specific actions
isn't the only thing that the commission could do. Legislation
[submitted by the commission] would have to come with an
explanation for why the legislation is necessary and would tell
the legislature and Executive Branch how to do their jobs.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY said his support of HB 190 is for different
reasons than those stated by the drafter. He asked whether part
of the sponsor's intent is that by having this legislation in
place the departments will be more likely to do what they are
supposed to do.
CHAIR CARPENTER confirmed that that is some of the intent. He
said he knows from his own experience working in bureaucratic
organizations that day-to-day operations are all consuming,
[affecting] the ability to look toward process improvement or
improving oneself or the organization. The Alaska Sunset
Commission's sole duty of doing a deep dive to understand what
is supposed to happen, what is happening, and how it can be
improved will assist the government in seeing itself and getting
better.
6:22:09 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GROH inquired whether, under HB 190, the Alaska
Industrial Development and Export Authority (AIDEA) would be
considered a principal department or entity.
CHAIR CARPENTER confirmed that that is correct.
REPRESENTATIVE GROH said many people, including himself, think
AIDEA is an entity deserving an audit of its activities and use
of funds, and that is one reason why he would support the bill.
6:23:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TILTON stated that HB 190 is a good bill. She
argued, however, that technically the administration has more
appointees and representation on the Alaska Sunset Commission
because three commissioners are appointed by the governor and
two are appointed by each legislative body. She said she is
reserving the right to continue thinking about what the makeup
of the commission should look like.
CHAIR CARPENTER noted that there was discussion by the committee
and discussion in his office to re-evaluate the commission's
makeup and the decision to place the commission underneath the
lieutenant governor's office. Options discussed included
placing the commission underneath the Legislative Budget and
Audit or under Legislative Counsel. The roadblock was where
else the commission could be placed that would have an objective
oversight. Also discussed was the option of reducing the number
of governor appointees by one, thereby reducing the commission's
membership from seven to six, but an odd rather than even number
of members makes it easier to accomplish things because there
wouldn't be ties. No conclusion was arrived at that seemed a
better option than what was listed in the bill, but he is open
to suggestions as the bill goes through the process.
REPRESENTATIVE TILTON expressed her appreciation for the bill as
well as the efforts that went into the bill.
6:26:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE shared that he too has thought about this.
He said he thinks, however, that a smart executive wouldn't put
three "yes men" on the commission because a smart executive
would want three smart and apolitical people on the commission
who will find the answers needed for the governor, as executive,
to move forward. This gives the governor that vehicle while
still giving the legislature some skin in the game, and so he
thinks [the makeup] is good the way it is now.
CHAIR CARPENTER stated that that intent is now on the record.
6:28:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY described his assumption for the formula of
how the pattern of appointments would work and suggested that an
amendment be drafted that spells out the formula.
CHAIR CARPENTER offered his belief that most boards have
staggered assignments so there is continuity, and he believes
that is the bill's intent.
MS. ARDUIN explained that the bill as written provides for
staggered terms for the commissioners. All the commissioners
would be appointed so there is a full commission the first term
and those appointments would have staggered end dates. Then, at
each end date, the reappointment or new appointment would be for
five years.
CHAIR CARPENTER stated he would like to move out the bill if
there are no objections or additional work needing to be done.
6:30:51 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE moved to report HB 190, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHB 190(W&M) was
reported out of the House Special Committee on Ways and Means.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 190 v.B.PDF |
HW&M 5/9/2023 6:00:00 PM HW&M 1/24/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 1/31/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 2/14/2024 6:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 - Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HW&M 5/9/2023 6:00:00 PM HW&M 1/24/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 1/31/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 2/14/2024 6:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 - Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HW&M 5/9/2023 6:00:00 PM HW&M 1/24/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 1/31/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 2/14/2024 6:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190-OOG-LTG-01-11-24 Fiscal Note.pdf |
HW&M 1/24/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 1/31/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 2/14/2024 6:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB190 Alaska Sunset Commission Presentation.pdf |
HW&M 1/24/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 1/31/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 2/14/2024 6:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 List of Divisions and Corporations Under Each Department (for presentation).pdf |
HW&M 1/24/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 1/31/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 2/14/2024 6:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 - Amendment 1.pdf |
HW&M 1/31/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 2/14/2024 6:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 - Amendment 2.pdf |
HW&M 1/31/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 2/14/2024 6:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 - Amendment 3.pdf |
HW&M 1/31/2024 6:00:00 PM HW&M 2/14/2024 6:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |