Legislature(2023 - 2024)BARNES 124

03/19/2024 08:00 AM House COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS

Note: the audio and video recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 151 FORMATION OF BOROUGHS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+= HB 347 PROPERTY ASSESSMENT TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 347(CRA) Out of Committee
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                  HB 151-FORMATION OF BOROUGHS                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:14:48 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCCORMICK announced that the  final order of business would                                                               
be HOUSE BILL NO. 151, "An  Act relating to proposals for borough                                                               
incorporation submitted to the legislature  by the Local Boundary                                                               
Commission."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:15:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVE STANCLIFF,  Staff, Representative  Mike Cronk,  Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, on behalf of Representative  Cronk, prime sponsor of                                                               
HB  151, stated  that  the  bill sponsor  had  been working  with                                                               
Legislative  Legal  Services   ("legislative  legal")  and  other                                                               
legislators to determine how best  to expand the public's role in                                                               
the government process of borough formation.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:15:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCCORMICK invited Ms. Moller to speak to the bill.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOLLER offered comments not related to the bill.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:19:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MIKE  CRONK,   Alaska  State  Legislature,  prime                                                               
sponsor, clarified  that Ms. Moller  was speaking to HB  279, not                                                               
HB 151.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:19:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MOLLER apologized  for  speaking  to the  wrong  bill.   She                                                               
sought clarity on  how the local boundary  commission (LBC) would                                                               
determine whether  a majority of  citizens of voting  age support                                                               
the formation of a borough.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:22:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCCORMICK opened public testimony on HB 151.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:23:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES  SQUYRES, representing  self,  testified in  support of  HB
151.   He stated that the  bill would attempt to  ensure that LBC                                                               
commissioners  uphold Article  10,  Section 12,  with Article  1,                                                               
Section  2  [of the  Alaska  Constitution],  before submitting  a                                                               
legislative review  proposal, which  he applauded.   He proceeded                                                               
to respond  to several metrics  offered by  the LBC chair  in his                                                               
written testimony expressing  opposition to HB 151.   He asserted                                                               
that in violation of the Open  Meetings Act, the process by which                                                               
the LBC  touts to follow  was violated in  the vote to  oppose HB
151.   He stated that the  bill was an opportunity  to direct and                                                               
guide  the  LBC  in  creating   regulations  that  would  balance                                                               
commissioners in fulfilling their oath  to support and defend the                                                               
constitution.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:27:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LARRY  WOOD, Chair,  Local Boundary  Commission (LBC),  testified                                                               
during the  hearing on HB  151.  In  response to Mr.  Squyres, he                                                               
said he  had an explanation  for the  actions that took  place at                                                               
the LBC meeting last week and  requested an extra five minutes to                                                               
testify.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:28:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:29:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCCORMICK  advised Mr. Wood  to adhere to  the three-minute                                                               
time limit.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:30:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOD  noted that he  sent biographical information  about the                                                               
commission's members who  act in a quasi-judicial  role to fairly                                                               
analyze  questions regarding,  in this  case, borough  formation.                                                               
He  shared a  brief  overview of  his  personal and  professional                                                               
background.   He  opined that  HB 151  would change  the way  the                                                               
Alaska  Constitution  prescribes  borough  formation  in  Alaska.                                                               
Furthermore,  he  shared  his belief  that  [the  committee]  was                                                               
moving too fast.  He pointed  out that the mechanism described in                                                               
statute  for  presenting  a   legislative  proposal  for  borough                                                               
formation had  never been  used.  In  conclusion, he  stated that                                                               
there was a "full public process" in current practice.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:36:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEARS said she would  appreciate hearing more from                                                               
Mr. Wood at a later time.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   HIMSCHOOT    said   after    reading   "Alaska's                                                               
Constitution, A Citizen's Guide"  by Gordon Harrison and speaking                                                               
with legislative legal, there may  be a broad misunderstanding of                                                               
the  section  allowing the  commission  or  board to  consider  a                                                               
proposed local  government boundary  change.  She  explained that                                                               
contrary to  common perception, this  section may not be  used to                                                               
form a borough.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:37:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RODNEY DIAL,  Mayor, Ketchikan Gateway Borough,  testified during                                                               
the hearing  on HB  151.   He shared  that the  Ketchikan Gateway                                                               
Borough  had  expressed  concern about  the  disparate  treatment                                                               
imposed  by   the  state  regarding  unorganized   and  organized                                                               
boroughs, specifically  as it relates  to the  broad-based, local                                                               
contribution tax that  is imposed only on  citizens living inside                                                               
the organized  boroughs.  He  asserted the citizens  of Ketchikan                                                               
and  eight  other  regional  areas  are  not  afforded  the  same                                                               
protections as those  proposed in HB 151, and were  forced by the                                                               
legislature to establish as boroughs  under the Mandatory Borough                                                               
Act  of  1963.    He  cited a  1981  study  into  Alaska's  local                                                               
government model  that concluded  "the present  system encourages                                                               
dependence and  that the inhabitants  of the  unorganized borough                                                               
are encouraged  to be supplicants  and clients of  state provided                                                               
services and largely spectators upon  the political life of local                                                               
government."  He pointed out  that many communities in the state,                                                               
such as  Prince of Wales  Island, have  a tax base  sufficient to                                                               
contribute  to the  common  good,  but choose  not  to, to  avoid                                                               
paying the required  local contribution tax.  He  opined that the                                                               
bill would  not support  the sustainability  of the  state budget                                                               
and  recommended  that the  legislature  find  ways to  encourage                                                               
borough formation, not discourage it.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:41:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HIMSCHOOT asked  where  she could  find the  1981                                                               
study referenced by Mr. Dial.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. DIAL  said the study came  from a presentation by  the Alaska                                                               
Municipal  League  (AML)  that was  previously  provided  to  the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:42:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN   HARRINGTON,  Vice   Chair,   Local  Boundary   Commission,                                                               
testified  during the  hearing  on  HB 151.    He questioned  the                                                               
bill's  constitutionality and  characterized  the  proposal as  a                                                               
"solution  in  search  of  a   problem."    He  acknowledged  the                                                               
"legislative  obstacles" to  borough formation  and commented  on                                                               
his participation in two recent  boundary formations   Petersburg                                                               
and  Wrangell    which  were both  formed by  local  action.   He                                                               
opined that the proposed legislation required further work.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:46:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RUFFRIDGE asked  whether Mr.  Harrington believed                                                               
that status quo was "doing just fine."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARRINGTON  answered no; however,  he opined that  the status                                                               
quo  is  the  only  way forward  without  removing  obstacles  to                                                               
borough  formation through  legislative  action.   Otherwise,  he                                                               
suspected  that  the only  future  action  would be  first  class                                                               
cities seeking borough formation.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
8:47:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ED MARTIN, representing self, testified  in opposition to HB 151.                                                               
He opined  that the  creation of any  government over  a boundary                                                               
area  of individuals  should "fear  the people,"  adding that  no                                                               
boundary  commission or  politically appointed  body should  have                                                               
complete control  over the desires  of the citizens  within those                                                               
areas.   He  said he  sympathized with  the numerous  unorganized                                                               
boroughs that  don't contribute to  possible schools,  and shared                                                               
his belief  that the state  should do  something about that.   He                                                               
opined  that the  bill  would  not address  "we  the people"  and                                                               
suggested  that   the  committee   hold  the  bill   for  further                                                               
consideration and research.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:50:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CLAY WALKER,  Local Boundary  Commission (LBC),  testified during                                                               
the hearing  on HB  151.   He discussed what  he perceived  to be                                                               
"unmeetable  hurtles" to  borough formation  proposed in  HB 151,                                                               
including  the provision  outlining the  legislative review  rout                                                               
and the methodology for determining  the majority of residents of                                                               
voting age.   He encouraged the  committee to table the  bill and                                                               
address these important issues.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:53:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCCORMICK closed  public testimony  on HB  151 and  sought                                                               
questions from committee members.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
8:54:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HIMSCHOOT  explained that after doing  a deep dive                                                               
on the  bill, there  may be broad  misconception of  what Article                                                               
10, Section 12 of the  Alaska Constitution does, reiterating that                                                               
it  may not  be a  pathway to  borough formation.   She  read the                                                               
following  excerpt  from   "Alaska's  Constitution,  A  Citizen's                                                               
Guide" by Gordon Harrison [original punctuation provided]:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The term "boundary change" used in this section refers                                                                     
      to changes in established boundaries such as through                                                                      
     annexation and  detachment, not to the  creation of new                                                                    
     cities  and  boroughs through  incorporation.  Although                                                                    
     the local boundary  commission plays a key  role in new                                                                    
     incorporations  and unifications,  it  does so  through                                                                    
     authority  conferred on  it  by  the legislature  under                                                                    
     Sections  3  and 7  of  this  article (which  say  that                                                                    
     cities  and  boroughs   may  be  incorporated,  merged,                                                                    
     consolidated,  classified, or  dissolved in  the manner                                                                    
     provided  by law).  The legislature  has said  that the                                                                    
     local   boundary  commission   may  not   consider  the                                                                    
     creation of  a new borough  under this section  (AS 29.                                                                    
     05.115).                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:58:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. STANCLIFF  remarked, "This  is an  amazing revelation."   One                                                               
solution, he said,  would be to repeal this  section entirely, as                                                               
it does  not allow  for enough  public process  and had  not been                                                               
used in 60 years.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RUFFRIDGE  echoed  the sentiment  shared  by  Mr.                                                               
Stancliff  and  encouraged a  deeper  dive  into the  legislative                                                               
history [of borough formation].                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:00:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCABE   contended  that  borough   formation  is                                                               
addressed in  Article 10, Section  3 of the  Alaska Constitution,                                                               
not Section 12.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HIMSCHOOT clarified  that boundaries are addressed                                                               
in Section  12.  She  questioned whether Section 12  fulfills the                                                               
mission of  Section 3, and  whether [AS 29.05.115(a)]  would best                                                               
be  repealed  as a  result  of  the conflict  identified  between                                                               
Section 12 and Section 3.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:03:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. STANCLIFF said it was  hard to discern the legislative intent                                                               
from the  legislative record  pertaining to  the creation  of the                                                               
LBC.   He  agreed with  Representative Himschoot's  suggestion to                                                               
"go  back  and  stay  with   the  public  process,  which  is  in                                                               
continuity with what was intended originally."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:05:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MOLLER concurred  that the  issue required  more time.   She                                                               
reported that there was a local  option petition that failed by a                                                               
vote of 129 to 1242 in Representative Cronk's district.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   HIMSCHOOT  read   the  following   excerpt  from                                                               
"Alaska's  Constitution, A  Citizen's Guide"  by Gordon  Harrison                                                               
pertaining   to  Section   3   of   the  constitution   [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The legislature  may mandate the creation  of boroughs,                                                                    
     and  citizens   may  voluntarily  petition   to  create                                                                    
     boroughs.     Statutory    standards     for    borough                                                                    
     incorporation are similar to,  and little more specific                                                                    
     than, the  constitutional standards  set out  here (see                                                                    
     AS  29.05.031). This  flexibility has  allowed boroughs                                                                    
     to vary widely in  size and population. Local petitions                                                                    
     to  create a  borough are  made to  the local  boundary                                                                    
     commission   created   in   Section  12   below.   (The                                                                    
     commission  may   not  create   boroughs  on   its  own                                                                    
     initiative.)  Initially, the  legislature provided  for                                                                    
     three  classes of  boroughs, but  now only  first-class                                                                    
     and second-class boroughs are authorized.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:07:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRONK  in closing,  thanked the committee  for the                                                               
dialogue and  said he looked forward  to a deeper dive  into this                                                               
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:07:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCCORMICK announced that HB 151 would be held over.                                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 151 Fiscal Note 3.19.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 151
HB 151 Sect. 3.19.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 151
HB 151 Sponsor Statement 3.19.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 151
HB 151 Version B 3.19.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 151
HB 151 Letter of Opposition - Local Boundary Commission Concerns 3.15.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 151
CSHB347 Amendment #1 3.19.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 347
CSHB347 Amendment #2 3.19.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 347
CSHB347 Amendment #3 3.19.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 347
HB 347 Fiscal Note 3.12.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 347
HB 347 Public Testimony 3.18.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 347
HB 347 Sectional Analysis (CR&A) 3.18.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 347
HB 347 Sponsor Statement (CR&A) 3.18.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 347
HB0347A.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 347
HB 151 Letter of Support 3.19.24.pdf HCRA 3/19/2024 8:00:00 AM
HB 151